Re: REALLY OT: News Flash
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 07:20:50PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
>> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>>>> Yup. Because look at the time; that was how things were written. The
>>>> concepts we have now did not exist then. But if you look further in their
>>>> papers you'll see they were more Deists (God exists but does not partake in
>>>> this world) than the Theists of Christians today (God exists and takes an
>>>> active, personal role in our lives).
>>> Care to provide some citations?
>> I did, I gave you the search.
> Right. I did the search for "founding fathers christian" and found that
> 70% of the top hits are in support of that view point. You also said
> that the founding fathers wrote against Christianity, yet cannot provide
> a link to a single essay or paper to support that.
Just thought I would my two bits:
The book, AMERICA'S REAL RELIGION, by Gene Garman, M. Div., provides primary
source citations for quotations from Benjamin Franklin, George Washington,
Thomas Paine, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Abraham Lincoln
regarding their personal religion and regarding religion's proper relationship
to government. For example, James Madison, Father of the Constitution, a
co-chairman of the joint Senate-House conference committee which drafted the
First Amendment, fourth president of the United States -- in school, were you
taught that Madison believed in separation between religion and government?
Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia
Statute for Religious Freedom, third president of the United States -- in
school, were you taught that Jefferson was a unitarian who believed in
separation between church and state? John Adams, second president of the
United States -- in school, were you taught that Adams did not believe in the
doctrine of eternal damnation or the trinity? George Washington, Father of His
Country, first president of the United States -- in school, were you taught
that Washington refused to take communion in Christian churches? In school,
were you taught that Franklin, Paine, and Lincoln believed in God but were not
communing members of any Christian church? AMERICA'S REAL RELIGION documents
the above statements and what these famous Americans believed about religion
-- in their own words (including citations).
>>> Well, they clearly weren't founding a secular state, or they would not
>>> have mentioned a creator. The point is that they recognized that human
>>> rights came from something greater than humans. That greater thing is
>> That's because at the time there really was no widespread concept that the
>> world could be anything but created! Do you understand how shocking a concept
>> it was that a state did not endorse any religion was at the time?
> Yes. It was quite shocking since "state religions" were all the rage.
> They all wanted to go somewhere where they could worship in their own
> way without government interference. That does not change the fact that
> they were mostly Christians.