Re: Suggestion: Time limit for NM process
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> > Well, that's almost how this NM process started ... the DAM did say "we
> > don't process NM anymore, it's too complicated, we're overwhelmed". And
> > then some DD decided to not let contributors on the side and we decided to
> > "sponsor" them and later on we wuilt on that process to create the
> > current process.
>
> You're pointing out something important: changes can only be made by DDs. If
> no DD is feeling like something should be improved, whereas NMs are upcoming
> with ideas, nothing will change. Not really surprising, though. ;)
You say DD are not listening to suggestion. Some are not and some are, you
can't generalize.
You tell DD are not interested in improving things. Again it's wrong,
otherwise the current NM process wouldn't exist and we would be still
stuck like in 1998/99 when not a single applicant was processed.
Whatever you propose, you will always find people upset by your proposal,
if your idea is good, then you'll manage to convince one or two DD and
work with them to implement it. Sometimes it will be with the people
responsible of that in Debian and sometimes it will be a replacement of
what already exists in Debian. Both are OK.
Simply dropping here and complaining is not useful. What about starting by
improving the current NM infrastructure to let people register the URL of
the wiki page that they use to record their contributions ?
> > I'm not advocating to create parallel NM process in this case, because the
> > people handling it are open to suggestions and patches.
>
> Thijs pointed out that this isn't the case.
Then he's wrong. Being open to suggestions doesn't mean that one need to
accept whatever the other side decides ... it means that we can discuss
sanely and that patches will usually be reviewed.
> those were put down in a harsh manner. I just pointed out that this is not
> only true for this area, but for the whole project.
So you're complaining of the "whole project" so that every DD can feel
attacked by your mail ... what a nice way to make new friends and
integrate in the community. :-/
(I understand it's not what you meant but still, you should think twice
about what you're writing... you're also a bit negatively biased by your
deception due to the bad collaboration on the buildd stuff)
> > Michael was simply pointing out that your generalization of the probem
> > diiverted from the specific problem that we're trying to handle here...
> > and as such the "generic" discussion should be moved somewhere else.
>
> Anyway, Michael and you are showing exactly what the problem is: instead of
> coming up with own ideas how to improve the NM process in this discussion,
"Instead of"... how do you know that I don't plan to work on NM ? What
about not scaring potential AM like me ?
> you're discussing about the right place of a meta-discussion instead of
> taking arguments from the prior posts and see what you can do about that.
See my point before: the generalization that you made just helped to turn
this sub-thread into something useless.
> problem as a whole, but it's more like acknowledging "yeah, it's a generic
> problem, but we can start to solve here in this subproject first".
So why not stating that directly instead of posting only negative stuff?
> So, what are *your* ideas to improve the NM process then? :-)
I gave some ideas in my last blog post:
| Discuss with NM, DAM and ftpmasters how to make the NM process evolve. An
| example of a possible solution sketched out on the basis of recent discussions
| could be :
|
| * Require from candidates entering the NM process to setup a wiki page
| listing their regular contributions to Debian in the last 6 months.
|
| * Allow NM who have been successfully sponsored on a package to upload
| themselves this package (and only this one, no NMU).
|
| * Implement changes in the LDAP database to differentiate privileges
| (upload, unix account, vote, email) so that people who are not
| requesting upload rights can have a simplified NM process
And in the short term, we need a kind of global ping to AM/applicants to
ask them to clear the status of the many applicants who are taking so long
and put those who are not ready yet on hold (so that many AM are freed a
bit).
Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog
Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
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