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Re: Need for launchpad


On Sunday 08 January 2006 09:49, Matthew Palmer wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 09:02:09AM +0100, Stephan Hermann wrote:
> > On Sunday 08 January 2006 07:27, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 03:19:42PM -0500, Frans Jessop wrote:
> > > > Ubuntu's launchpad is amazing.  Do you think it would be helpful if
> > > > all DD's worked through it on their projects?  Wouldn't that keep
> > > > things more organized and efficient?  Or perhaps Debian could build
> > > > its own version of launchpad which is better.  Again, I think it
> > > > would do a good job keeping everything organized an efficient.
> > >
> > > The day when working on Debian requires the use of a web interface
> > > will be the day that I hunt down and painfully kill the person
> > > responsible for doing it.
> >
> > Luckily that the bts of Launchpad has a mailinterface..which is quite
> > nice. So some other parts will have mailinterfaces as well, and some
> > other goodies where someone can attach some nice cli tools.
> Which nobody except the Blessed Few (being those who have signed the NDA
> allowing them access to the Launchpad code) can modify or enhance.

Everything what is on https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/ is free to use. 
Read and think again. Or use another example: Amazons code is not free to 
see, but you can use the interfaces described in their developers documents, 
same applies to google api.
So where is the difference? Everybody is playing with public interfaces, where 
the sourcecode is non-free. But nobody complains. Without google e.g., as a 
free, but sourcecode-non-free service, most of the people here, even the cli 
guys are lost.

Oh, I never signed an NDA, so I've never seen the code, actually I'm not 
interested in the code, because if I have a problem with the result, I can 
file bugs against this products, or bug the maintainers of the code in their 
present irc channel :)

> > > Removing the ability to manage things from the shell would not be more
> > > organised and efficient unless you're a complete fricking moron who
> > > can't operate a unix host. Which appears to be the target audience of
> > > launchpad.
> >
> > Well, I'm happy to see, that a lot of people are not thinking like you.
> > They see launchpad as a collaborative worktool.
> Your comment doesn't follow from what Andrew said.

Well, if I see that e.g. find and xargs are more efficient for my local file 
search then the beagle desktop search or whatever, it's my choice. If someone 
is translating applications, and he or she is using vi, emacs or something 
else, it's his/her choice. When someone wants to use kbabel to translate 
apps, even this is someones choice, so is e.g. Rosetta, as webapplication. 
But regarding, that vi, emacs or kbabel are not network aware for sharing the 
workload with the community, I think rosetta as translation webapplication 
is, in this moment, the best tool to work with. The output of Rosetta is 
usable for everyone and anyone. So, now, what is more efficient? 

Working alone in a dark, cold cellar, translating e.g. only 30 strings and not 
knowing if someone else was translating this already, or using a webbrowser 
and translating 30 strings, and see that other people are also translating?

Well, if I see the difference between 20 people working on one application and 
translating them in less then 2 hours, or I'm sitting in a dark, cold cellar, 
alone, only with vi, and translating 30 strings in 2 hours, what is more 
worth for OSS or free software?

> > But why should I tell that to a unix-guru, who can't even read the code
> > of conduct of the mailinglist of the distribution he is working for.
> People in glass houses, and all that.  Last time I got a serve from someone
> on an Ubuntu channel, I raised the issue of the Code of Conduct and got
> told "so what?".

I don't know if this guy who said that, ever signed the code of conduct, well 
I signed it, and I try to stick with it as hard as I can. Ok, nobody can take 
my sort of irony or sarcasm away. I'm sorry for that.

> > Finally, are you not able to use lynx?
> I know your smarter than that.  Pressing the down-arrow 50 times to reach
> an action button takes a lot longer than typing a quick command to invoke
> that same action, and we both know it.  Please don't throw bogus solutions
> around like that, it only encourages him.

Hehe...well, it's a matter of working behaviour. I never said, that working 
from the CLI is not faster or more productive sometimes. What I'm trying to 
say is, that this "arrogant elite thinking" must go away. We have to focus on 
what we all want, that is bring good software to the world. For that, we have 
to find a simple and usable solution, that everyone can work with. Not only 
the so called elite, or actually those people who think they are.

If we are not thinking about the people, who can't handle the console, or are 
not able to fullfill simple tasks with the cli, for those people we need at 
least another way. If Debian never followed this example, well I think there 
wouldn't be a webinterface for Debian BTS at all and all the informations of 
debian on the webpage, we would find in gopher or txt files which i have to 
search with archie.

> > But give them a choice, because linux/unix is choice.
> *cough*NDA*cough*.

To use a tool, I don't need a NDA.



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