Re: Need for launchpad
On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 11:44:57AM +0100, Stephan Hermann wrote:
> On Sunday 08 January 2006 10:39, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > You can't normally design real APIs onto production software and get
> > anything but a mess, you have to engage in sound engineering from the
> > start.
>
> Well, if anyone ever created and API from scratch which was good and working,
> I think he would be now a rich man. Well, MS is, but the API is polished with
> every release.
Rotfl.
Have you ever actually looked at the junk Microsoft calls 'API'? If
anythhing, it's not "polished". Far from it.
> > > > > Removing the ability to manage things from the shell would not be
> > > > > more organised and efficient unless you're a complete fricking moron
> > > > > who can't operate a unix host. Which appears to be the target
> > > > > audience of launchpad.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I'm happy to see, that a lot of people are not thinking like you.
> > > > They see launchpad as a collaborative worktool.
> > >
> > > Your comment doesn't follow from what Andrew said.
> >
> > Indeed, it appears to demonstrate a complete absence of having
> > understood the paragraph it is in reply to, or perhaps even having
> > read it.
>
> I commented this in my reply to Matthew.
Uh, no, you commented in reply to Andrew.
> > > > Finally, are you not able to use lynx?
> > >
> > > I know your smarter than that. Pressing the down-arrow 50 times to reach
> > > an action button takes a lot longer than typing a quick command to invoke
> > > that same action, and we both know it.
> >
> > And more to the point, is almost completely immune to scripting. Which
> > is the ultimate problem with most of these things. I don't think
> > Debian would even be here today if random people couldn't throw
> > together stuff they wanted to see done on top of the stuff we already
> > have; that's how most of our current infrastructure was created.
>
> As I said, it's a matter of the working behaviour. I'm almost faster with the
> keyboard even on UIs then with the mouse or touchpad, but it doesn't mean,
> that others are fast as well.
This paragraph couldn't be farther from the problem at hand. Andrew said
"there is no API, therefore there is no possibility to make command-line
tools, therefore it is a mess to use". You're saying "hey, but I can use
it fairly fast". Well, good for you, but that's not the point.
[...]
> > Unix tools should do one thing well and let another tool do the next
> > thing. That's how we've come this far. It's also a statement of some
> > elementary engineering principles. It always amazes me how eager
> > people are to abandon these concepts in favour of some grand
> > integrated white elephant that's all CSS and no trousers.
>
> Blame Xerox Star.
ITYM Xerox PARC. And Xerox didn't invent the mouse -- it already exists
since the 1960s.
> Without the invention of the mouse and without the Xerox
> Software, we wouldn't have this discussion :) We would haved stayed with a
> simple wired terminal based MP/M. As I said in the beginning, the world's
> changed, and we have to focus on people, who haven't the advantage of the
> good old school of using an OS on the console.
Those people usually aren't developers who prefer to use command-line
interfaces.
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