Le 08.07.2014 22:46, Steve Litt a écrit :
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:12:26 +0200 berenger.morel@neutralite.org wrote:I can't, but I want to ask some questions about that problem you describe. Are remote desktop the majority of linux uses?Do you really need remote capabilities when you use your own computer?What is the need of remote desktops on servers which are not dedicated? In short, is it smart to give a dependency to everyone for something which seems really addressing a problem for a minority? Especially when it makes that much noise?Indeed, it's nice to have a software able to solve those issues. But,why not only making it a opt-in, instead of opt-out?Because of the major DEs? Seriously, I think they are wrong since theday I definitely switched on linux, from windows, because windows'DE tries to do too much, and so takes a lot more resources that it really should. But... I am not trying to impose my opinion and my uses to everyone (ok, to be honest, when I can convince someone to use i3, I try hehe. But Iwill never ask for the removal of gnome as the default Debian's DE.).I just realized why I'm skeptical about what I've heard about systemd. My first car was a 1959 Plymouth with a 3 speed manual and a flathead 6 engine. You could hold a dance in the engine compartment. I could do a complete tune-up, including timing, in 30 minutes, using just an 8 inchadjustable wrench and a gapping tool.Now I have a very nice 2012 Jeep Patriot, with power windows and locks(only one keyhole on the whole thing). I wouldn't even try to replace the air filter on it. A certain part of my longs for my 59 Plymouth. One could say that if I really believed in that philosophy, I'd use Slackware or Arch. That's a valid argument, as is the fact that I wouldn't use a 12 mile per gallon 59 Plymouth anymore. But there's a spectrum. Yeah, I'm not going to use a 59 Plymouth anymore, but if it had been available, I would have chosen a model without electric windows, electronic doorlocks, electronic entry, speed sensitivesteering and suspension. If I could have it without messing up the air, I'd prefer not to have all that smog control equipment bolted all overthe engine, making it impossible for an owner to do a decent tuneup.
The problem is, for me, that some equipments which makes the engine hard to tinker are useful to not reject lot of crap in air. But, on the other hand, stuff which we now can't not have like electric windows, GPS, electronic doorlocks, etc, are exactly the inverse. We have to have them, but they pollute: the energy they have, is taken from battery, which is recharged through the engine by adding more charge (And I won't speak about the production of all this electronic, and the problems those stuff gave! And it's not a ghost, my driver's side window is a proof of that.). So, in the absolute, yes, it's better than what we had, but we could still be able to reduce the problems given.
Now, I think lot of people nowadays would be unable to find their way without a GPS (and it is so fun to listen them complain about the wrong paths they took, that in a sense I would lose something too hehehe) or assistance to turn the steering wheel... I never have driven cars as old as yours, but my first one did not had lot of stuff (Renault Clio dated from 1989, IIRC) but I had considerably less problems than with my current, which only have 12-13 more years (and so, not completely "smart").
Back to the subject, if you want to compare things completely, if you use a classic DE, you are already using your 2012 car. Systemd won't make things more complex on that kind of systems, in fact, they are so bloated that I guess it will ease users to have some control on those beasts. Systemd will provide easier control of daemons, like dbus, pulseaudio etc, which are in fact just useless for me (and so are not on my own system) --but, they are not just useless, for example dbus is needed to allow workarounds, like allowing simple users to configure the network. Some sort of sudo, in fact. I am thinking about network-manager here--. It's nice for KDE/Gnome, but bad for my special case of being a tinkerer which likes minimal systems, it's not. And why do I like minimal systems as a tinkerer? Because they are easier to understand, and maintain. Minimal systems also allows their users to actually read the changelogs when there are updates: I would not ever try if I had all recommended packages installed, and doing it for a Gnome/KDE desktop is just something which haunt my nights. Back to windows? :/