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Re: Debian UK

On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 04:17:34PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> Simon Huggins <huggie@earth.li> wrote:
> > It's just a more formal, more accountable situation than what was
> > happening before when Steve shoved Debian money into a shoebox under his
> > bed.
> Is it any more accountable to hold an AGM if you belittle the
> idea of using it as an AGM? No, that's a sham. Lest you forget,
> I dislike bureaucracy, but I also know some of the implications
> of participating in voluntary organisations because I've been
> doing it for years. GMs are a necessary part of accountability.

Every post of yours on this subject, in my opinion, shows you *adore*
bureaucracy or you wouldn't persist in this mindnumbingly dull debate
over a point which has no relevance to -project any more (given the
grant of the trademark use).

I note you didn't turn up to the AGM to try to put your point across - I
can only assume that that wasn't a very convenient way of causing
trouble for the society and that you prefer reaching a larger audience
this way.

> > It's not there as an evil overlord "business" and participants on
> > debian-uk are bored silly explaining this over and over.  Still Mark [0]
> > persists in grinding his axe.  Hell he's even said he's going to on this
> > list: ``c. I slowly work through "Not In Our Name"-style tactics.''
> The other options work if DUS stops asserting involuntary membership.

I still prefer option d where you realise that you're making a lot of
fuss for no good reason and stop.

> [...]
> > I don't understand why Mark is so against this promotion of Debian,
> > funding of some Debian related trips and yes, occasionally bits of
> > sustenance by way of thanks for hard working people manning an expo
> > stand. [...]
> The promotion of Debian is most welcome.

We would be most glad then if you would stop trying to harm it by
involving all the members in a stupid flamewar on -project then.  Trust
me you are visibly doing harm.

You do realise that you are potentially making people think twice before
they sell t-shirts/CDs elsewhere right?

> > Nothing here is going to hurt Debian; [...]
> You can predict the future now?

No, I trust the people.  Based on previous experience where they could
have just *taken* the money and things weren't so public.

How many fine, upstanding UK Debian Developers have to stand up and say
"Steve, Phil and Vince are great guys and should be allowed to continue
what they've been doing without MJ's harrassment" before you stop?

> > How MJ Ray can kick up so much fuss about this and still claim to be
> > working for Debian and Free Software is beyond me.
> If this episode makes anyone actually seek good advice *BEFORE*
> setting up a free software volunteer organisation, then it will have
> been worth it, in my opinion. I just wish DUS had. It's not like
> there's any shortage of good examples available. Even if we're
> voluntary, there's no excuse for being sloppy.

You had your chance for input as Phil has pointed out.  It's only
recently you've adopted these attempts to destroy the good work that is
happening in Debian's name in the UK; yes, in Debian's name, as it
rightly should being Debian work promoting Debian!

If you're just pissed off about the Mark <-> MJ thing then this really
isn't the way to get back at people for your own personal grievances.

I'm done now.  I can see I can't reason with you but please reconsider
your position.

 _        huggie@earth.li      -+*+-     fou, con et anglais      _
(_)   "AAAhhh, I see you're using the Machine that goes Bing."   (_)
(_)                                                              (_)
  \___                                                        ___/

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