[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Debian UK

* Simon Huggins (huggie@earth.li) wrote:
> It's just a more formal, more accountable situation than what was
> happening before when Steve shoved Debian money into a shoebox under his
> bed.

Things have gotten muddled though and that's the problem.  There's a
number of issues here:

1) Holding money in the UK on behalf of Debian
2) Selling t-shirts and whatnot
3) The name issue with 'Debian-UK'
4) The 'opt-out' membership
5) The beer-bashes
6) The bank account

For my part, I think #1, #3 and #6 go just fine together.  I don't 
think anyone would disagree with that.  #2 and #5 work fine together 
also but shouldn't be done under something claiming close ties to 
Debian.  The monies should also be seperated.  If the 
selling-t-shirts folks want to donate to Debian, that's fine, but 
the Debian side should only be spending money at direct orders of 
the DPL and should be reporting the holdings and expenses and balance 
information to the DPL (and/or maybe SPI?  Not sure, that'd need to 
be worked out).

#4 was just a bad idea, and really should be corrected.  Figure out who
wants to be a part of it and who doesn't and update the membership
accordingly.  Accept the fact that not all DDs in the UK will want to be
a part of it.

> It's not there as an evil overlord "business" and participants on
> debian-uk are bored silly explaining this over and over.  Still Mark [0]
> persists in grinding his axe.  Hell he's even said he's going to on this
> list: ``c. I slowly work through "Not In Our Name"-style tactics.''

Businesses are not inherently evil but they do have different priorities
than Debian.  I don't follow debian-uk and it certainly doesn't sound
like it's actually been resolved in an acceptable way regardless.

> The supposed "business" is selling things like Debian CDs and DVDs and
> t-shirts with Debian emblazened on them.  I can't honestly see why
> anyone on this list would object to that.  Do you Stephen?

Sure, just the same as people object to Debian/SPI selling CDs, DVDs or
t-shirts, or actually spending money for that matter.  There's a number
of issues involved when you start doing things commercially.  Certainly
the first one is 'what is the priority'?  Another is, does this unfairly
compete against others?  Personally, I think Debian/SPI should be
selling things but I respect that the apparent majority disagrees with
me on that.  Certainly if Debian/SPI isn't going to do it then
Debian/SPI in other countries shouldn't either.  That's what
Debian-UK comes across to me as- the UK branch of Debian.  It seems
you'd like for it to be percieved that way as well.  It's not if it's
selling things.

> It's all about promoting Debian in all the right ways by going to expos
> and events in the UK.

This seems a bit orthogonal to the other issues, but I'll bite.
Honestly, I'd rather see 'Debian' on a list of expo attendees than
'Debian-UK'.  It's about promoting Debian, so go there as Debian, and
act as Debian does.

> I don't understand why Mark is so against this promotion of Debian,
> funding of some Debian related trips and yes, occasionally bits of
> sustenance by way of thanks for hard working people manning an expo
> stand.
> I just don't get it.

I don't think it's appropriate to put words into other mouths.  You're
drawing a conclusion there which is almost certainly incorrect and
attempting to draw an 'us vs. them' line.  Let's leave such foolishness
at the door, please.

> Nothing here is going to hurt Debian; the DPL got dragged into the
> debate and has approved the use of the trademark; and the people
> involved (Steve, Phil, Vince, others who man the stall year in year out)
> get their hard and well justified work derided in public.

The DPL has only approved the use of the mark for the interim.  Do not
be suprised if that use is later recinded, in fact, if I were you I'd
prepare for it or even better take action to make it a non-issue.

> I realise that money can be very devisive but these are relatively small
> amounts of money used well for the good of Debian.

Even small amounts of money can change people's priorities.

> How MJ Ray can kick up so much fuss about this and still claim to be
> working for Debian and Free Software is beyond me.

Let's stop with the garbage, please.  It doesn't help us come up with an
acceptable solution.

> > Also, who exactly is 'the rest of us'?  It certainly doesn't include
> > me and I'd claim that it doesn't include anyone but you.  If there are
> > people who specifically agree with you then let them speak for
> > themselves.
> Do you really want this to turn into a whole thread of "I see no problem
> with Debian UK either!" ?

No, I'd much rather people not make blatently false claims.



Attachment: signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Reply to: