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Re: systemd and Linux are *fundamentally incompatible* -> and I can prove it



> Now that systemd has wrecked all kinds of previously working stuff, and many are beginning to realize the *impossibility* of getting systemd to > work *with* linux -> I think this might have some effect this time around.

Hello everybody,

I've been watching this discussion, quite curious what would come up and now that I have read some responses I would like to say that

1) I think some valid questions have been raised to which I have not seen ANY satisfactory answer that no doubt a person who truly understands the subject (unlike me) should be able to give. (though I might have missed some)

2) The responses with more or less subtle aggression and comments about the FORMAT of the original message greatly disquiet me as a user and "client" of the debian OS. Of course some formatting can help you better read the message but I was able to read it, I understand it as much as my education permits and I believe I possess only average intelligence, so I can't imagine why asterisks should be a problem for the "OS guys". I believe focusing on such unimportant things is only the sign of ego standing in the way of clear reasoning.

I would also like to ask something the people who dislike systemd (as there seem to be more). I am not very proficient with such internals of debian, but you say things like systemd breaks things and systemd has no unified design and sytemd is possibly a security risk. But can you give some easily reproducible examples or setups, code samples, cucumber scenarios, whatever, that could clearly demonstrate how systemd breaks anything? Otherwise it's very hard for me to judge anything if I can't play around with it and truly see for myself that it's so EVIL. Otherwise if you just personally disagree with the design of systemd and can't describe such a scenario, why not just migrate to Gentoo or BSD?

Cheers,
Jan


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
previously on this list Brett Parker contributed:

> Maybe you should do some more investigation, get some better clue of
> what you're talking about, and come back with a better, more thought
> out, set of arguments that actually have merit.

Right, by arguing on the basis of the definition of Linux rather than
the meaning of his arguments, or as often is the case on this
subject dividing and conquering or ignoring the valid points and
changing the subject to the 100th *needed* functionality that every
system apparently should have by default but actually turns out to
already exist but optionally installed and actually means little or
just gets in the way of better implementations.

There is another reason why Unix consisting of parts that do one thing
well is so valuable and that is because arguing over the best way of
doing it can't be polluted or crap forced in the back door with the
good.

Your response is actually closer to trolling.

Why is it the the word troll gets so abused. Naming people trolls when
they are not is worse than trolling in my opinion.

I really haven't the time right now to look over the links having took
a break from work to watch a footy match but assuming I didn't miss the
sarcasm then if Thorsten Glazer sees even an ounce of merit then I can
almost guarantee he is not trolling.


p.s. systemd being a bad design for an OS which aims to be so cross
platform is simply obvious to me on many levels, at the very least it
calls for extra oil/work/code depending on the scenario to meet that aim
and with little/no *real/truly beneficial* reason.

Still maybe it will be the death of Linux on the desktop atleast for
techies and I wouldn't mind to be honest as without grsecurity the linux
*kernel* actually has less security features than Windows or even
FreeBSD now and FreeBSD was trailing behind for a long time. The
userland security is much better than windows but with the exception
of apt repos being the only well used thing that springs to mind (which
is a valuable security feature) this was basically inherited from good
designers.

--
_______________________________________________________________________

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)

In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
_______________________________________________________________________


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