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Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

Joe wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 08:14:44 +0200
> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joe wrote:
>> > Having said that, I don't think I've had more sound problems with my
>> > sid workstations than with my stable server. Sound is generally a
>> > pig on Linux, as the software base seems to change every few years,
>> > and until recently, multiple sound cards had the same problem as
>> > multiple NICs in that the OS couldn't seem to identify them
>> > reliably. I've solved most of my sound problems by getting brutal
>> > and actually ripping out and blacklisting drivers for the sound
>> > devices I'm not using. Nothing less seemed to permanently solve the
>> > identity crisis.
>> Hi,
>> for my workstation (I want to turn it on and just work), I use
>> stable. For my server(s) the same. IMO Sid belongs in a VM for
>> playing arround. If you want to be one step ahead of time, try
>> testing it is usually stable.
> Outside the release freeze, testing is only a little more stable than
> unstable, and gets fixes later. In the long term, there's not a lot to
> choose.

don't think so because after unstable iteration, the fixes usually work

>> If you don't read/write code, I don't see why someone would use
>> unstable. As I mentioned ubuntu is much better to take in such a case
>> (Not a developer, but want to be ahead of debian time)
> Because there are a few applications still under development, they are
> seriously buggy and continuously increasing in features. Even a few
> weeks can make a big difference in functionality. I'm looking at you,
> libreoffice, libreCAD, geda PCB, etc...

This hasn't change much in the past 10 years - neither in stable nor in

> And since I'm not a professional developer, unstable is the practical
> way to donate to Debian, in the form of bug reports. All the work has
> already been done in stable.

Well, I said - in VM ware. I would not relay on it for daily use.

>> Regarding the sound - I never had a problem in the past 12+ years.
> You are fortunate. I went though a period where the assignments for
> sound card 0 and 1 would randomly flip, every few weeks or months. I
> didn't find whatever magical incantation would prevent this, if it
> existed.

I put index in the driver setup looooong time ago - never had an issue - you
don't need to mess up with udev rules - see there are intelligent hack and
not so intelligent. One should learn to find and use the intelligent one.

> If you look up sound problems in conjunction with Linux, the wealth of
> results you get will tell you how it has been. Because it has happened
> over such a long period of time, almost all of what you find will be
> obsolete and completely worthless, which makes fixing the problems so
> frustrating.

well - identify intelligent resolutions and apply - no problem - but is
challenging - there are so many "experts" posting arround

>> Why? Because I did configure the system properly and I use stable. So
>> instead of "getting brutal" you could setup your system properly and
>> forget about the issues.
> "Properly", eh? You mean spending a few days messing around with those
> intuitive udev naming rules? Why should that be necessary? Surely,
> running a *sound* utility *once*, and telling it which sound card I want
> to use should be sufficient? Why should I need to mess around with
> system stuff in order to choose my sound card and prevent it toggling
> my choice now and then? That kind of stuff should happen automatically
> at installation time, once and for all. Possibly it does, now.

Not at all - I spent few days understanding how it works and applying proper
setup. One of my problems was and is still in some extend - bluetooth with
pulseaudio. I want be able to play music from phone to PC.
I ended up compiling pulseaudio and the latest release 11.99 pre seomthing
managed to solve allthe issues, so guess when I update PA next time ... you
can not guess - I will never remove this until there is something much
better - means I have a working setup and the source for this in my
control. It is not likely it will stop working soon.

>> One bad thing that people do is the install things on the production
>> system just to try them out. Take a second system - or a second drive
>> - or a second installation on the same driver. Test there and move to
>> the working environment, when you are sure it works.
>> With other works make backups before doing something on your
>> production system.
> Yes, it would be nice to have batches of identical computers, and
> nothing to do all day but mess about with them... this isn't a
> commercial system, and I have neither the time nor the money to treat
> it as one. I'm a computer *user*.

You just mentioned above you want to contribute to debian and this is why
you take unstable - now contradicting yourself.
Look I met guys like you. I just wanted to give you good advice. Accept it
or not is your choice, but using deliberately Sid and complaining of having
issues (again) is simply not fair in the context of what you are doing -
especially on the user list. Also taken into account you are not a
developer, it means you can not even debug something - so do me a favor and
install testing. GEda and Libre will be better then in Sid and you will
reduce your frustration a lot.


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