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Re: sysadmin qualifications (Re: apt-get vs. aptitude)



Le 21.10.2013 22:23, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :

On 10/21/2013 3:49 PM, berenger.morel@neutralite.org wrote:



Le 19.10.2013 04:48, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :

On 10/18/2013 7:33 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:

berenger.morel@neutralite.org wrote:

Le 18.10.2013 17:50, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :
And, again, just a guess, but I'm guessing the huge percentage of 
programmers these days are writing .NET code on vanilla Windows
machines
(not that I like it, but it does seem to be a fact of life). A lot of people also seem to be writing stored SQL procedures to run on MS 
SQL.



Bad guess.  .NET is way down the list of popularity (much to
Microsoft's chagrin).  COBOL is still number 1; C/C++ still way
surpass .NET.  And MSSQL is well behind MySQL in the number of
installations (I think Oracle is still #1 with DB2 #2).


I wonder where did you had those numbers?
Usually, in various studies, COBOL is not even in the 5 firsts. I do 
not say that those studies are pertinent, they are obviously not,
since their methods always shows problems. But, it does not means that 
they are completely wrong, and I mostly use them as very vague
indicators.
So, I would like were you had your indicators, I may find that
interesting for various reasons.


Yeah.  I kind of quesiton those numbers as well.
As I said - Parks Associates - a well known and respected research firm. 


The sources I tend to check:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
This one is quite funny, I know it. That's not the only one I know, of course, but it is the quoted one when someone wants to troll a bit about 
languages popularity.



Try well-respected research firms.


Did not I said funny? Does funny means the same as serious?


http://langpop.com/
both have C and Java shooting it out for top spot

http://trendyskills.com/ (analysis of job postings)
has JavaScript, Java, and C# battling it out

COBOL is in the noise.



Do you really think PC job boards are a good indication of what
languages are most used?


Most used? No.
Most used to create new stuff and maintain old ones? Yes. You need
people to maintain and create softwares, and you can find people with 
job boards.
In fact, job boards can give a partial image of what is needed, in
current real world. Partial, of course. But there is no way to have an 
exact and complete image.



Yea, right.  How many programming jobs do you see from major
companies like IBM, Bank of America, United Parcel Service or any
other major company with lots of programmers?  The answer is - NONE.
Yet they all have huge numbers of programmers.
Do biggest companies have more programmers together than all other ones? 


And yes, there is a way to have at least a *more* exact and complete
image.  You hire a research firm which knows what it is doing to
survey the world.
Results means nothing, when you do not know how they determine them. That's why I said tiobe is a funny one, because I know how they are doing to measure stuff, and it makes me laugh. But it allows, in conjunction with others, to measure a vague tendency. That's the problem with statistics: the numbers themselves on a given time are just useless. But combining them with other ones from different sources and moments, and you can have a vague vision of tendencies. More or less precise depending on the methods, of course.
COBOL is still used, but tend to disappear, you can like it or not. I spoke with 2 persons which were able to give me reports that COBOL was still used: a friend from my studies that I have met anew last year in 
train, and a teacher which was doing... well, good question? But at
least it allowed me to see some real COBOL code for the first time.
I do not mean that I have met a lot of programmers, but clearly, COBOL 
is not something which will last for decades.



Not according to REAL research.  COBOL is still very heavily used; in
large finance, it's about the only language used other than web sites.
I am sorry to have to say that, but I see that you often use unverifiable sources. But it can't be helped I guess.
However, do not worry for it: being #20 or better means it is a widely 
used language.




Like it or not, it is #1.  But you refuse to acknowledge the truth.
You'd rather rely on job board listings.

Such is the fate of those unwilling to learn.
Interesting. For someone unwilling to learn, I think I admitted some of my errors in that discussion. The problem is that I do not remember you providing something we can check. While I am at it, how old is the last research they made? Such complete researches must take a lot of time and money, surely they do not make them on regular a basis.
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