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Re: administration of initscripts

> > Lets not pollute this useful thread with systemd  
> It seems a thread about init systems and administration/tweaking of them is the
> most appropriate place for systemd to be mentioned. Not least that it can solve
> the problem the OP had. It should not be ignored or avoided from being
> mentioned just because some people hate it. Some people hate sysvinit. What we
> should not do is 'pollute' the thread with any misinformed bias or non
> objective statements about the suitability of something for a particular job.
> Let's stick to facts.

Fair enough. I would always agree with that. I will say I am not biased
in any way by my usage of BSD.

> > but I will say it would be the absolute last on my list and actually systemd
> > itself is incomptible with BSD not just udev and from my experience would be
> > laughed out of the room by BSD devs even if it was POSIX compliant.  
> Luckily we're on a Debian mailing list, then, isn't it, and not a BSD one!

>>> Systemd has "assimilated" udev, in a manner of speaking. Udev can still 
>>> run completely without systemd, but for system builders they have to 
>>> take a lot of extra steps to seperate udev from systemd and install it. 
>>> Worse, some devs of systemd want to fully integrate udev into systemd 
>>> and make it so you can't use udev without systemd. This is bad for many 
>>> distributions as systemd may not be an option. Debian is an example: 
>>> Debian has a couple pet prijects to be ported to things
>>> like HURD and BSD, which do not provide kernel features absolutely 
>>> necessary for systemd. Some Gentoo developers have forked udev for this 
>>> reason.

I was merely replying to a few mails at once noting that the above
suggests udev is the only non posix part. Systemd is too, such as
cgroups which if you search for on the OpenBSD list you will see strong
arguments for them actually being practically pointless. I haven't the
time to look it up or talk about it here but it shouldn't be hard to

Please also note that it is not about Linux or BSD either but POSIX.
Without POSIX Linux negates itself from some major projects and
turning POSIX into Linux only, negates POSIX.


'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)

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