Re: [debian-knoppix] Why so much swap with knx-install?
Am Samstag, 25. Januar 2003 22:25 schrieb Gilles Pelletier:
> On January 25, 2003 11:09 am, Colin Marquardt wrote:
> > "Inefficiently"? Installation time or non-newbie-friendliness
> > matters not the slightest.
>
> If you say so...
>
> > You install it once, then just keep upgrading.
>
> The thing is you must have it installed once. Most people won't have the
> patience to play heads or tails on those weird questions. (Even Slackware's
> install script is so much more straightforward!)
Well, it's rather simplistic, but the Debian install is surely not really
difficult. Still Knoppix is nice, because it comes with "preconfigured" apt
sources.
>
> I succeeded in installing Debian but, whereas configuring ppp is a cinch
> with any other distro, Kppp was nowhere to be found. The was an option for
> ADSL configuration instead. I tried using wvdial, but wasn't sure the
> permissions I had so set to get it working as a user wouldn't get me into
> trouble.
Well configuring ppp without Kppp or any other GUI is not that difficult :)
>
> So I got back to Slackware because I had some experience with it. Debian
> developpers efforts were lost for me because some weirdo expert decided it
> wasn't necessary to provide kppp.
Well, it's included:
http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=kppp&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
>
> I'm sure you couldn't care less and that Debian would do great even if no
> newbie ever came to use it.
Well, admittingly Debian is rather on the Power-user (admin) side of things.
If you try to please the statistical mainstream you get something that
pleases nobody :)
> My opinion is the same as Ben Collins' : there is way too much entropy in
> the community. Remember how hard he tried to get Woody out less than a year
> after all other distros had their release of the 2.4 kernel out? To him
> "when it's ready" was clearly way too late. He never succeeded. The way
> Debian sees democracy might end up being costly.
Well, nobody forces you to use Woody. Use something less conservative, like
Knoppix, ...
>
> It's completely stupid to say Debian is such much safer when it comes out
> more than one year late. Let Red Hat or Suse mature for a year before you
> use it, and they'll be as safe as Debian. Once its stable version is out,
> Debian ends up having pretty much the same security updates as other
> distros.
It's not about security "safety". It's about configuration "safety".
Debian Woody is extremely conservative in packages updates. This has good
sides, like having a stable environement. And this is bad, because you are
left out of the exciting new features (and bugs). That's why there is
something like "testing" and "unstable" in Debian.
> Ask Klaus if Knoppix is meant as an installer for Debian. I tried the 31st
> of October version and there were still problems that prevented me to use
> Knoppix as my "on-disk" distro. The main problem was with a rather shrunken
> mtab. I believe this problem has now been solved with the present version
> and I'm looking forward to give it a try again when KDE 3.1 comes out.
Well, it works better than a SuSE 8.1 ;)
>
> Still, since hwdata is there for the taking, I don't understand why Debian
> doesn't use it. (Klaus has never been ashamed of taking from Debian and
> even Red Hat!) It wouldn't prevent sysadmins from using the Debian's
> script... thought I doubt they would. If a real sysadmin should be able to
> install any distro even without a script, in the real world, speed is often
> an issue.
Well, Debian seems to be a bit of conservative. That's somehow an interesting
trait, one usually associated with bankers. (Perhaps Debian a high percentage
of Bankers reborn as IT-professionals? *grin*)
>
> Note: I don't intend on pursuing this discussion. I've never succeeded in
> having a Debian devotee agree that there is something less than perfect
> about Debian. So all this is just IMHO. We'll see how things turn out.
Well, Debian is not perfect. But that's a philosophical problem (how do you
define a common definition of perfect?).
As I see it, I use Debian for Server-style deployments, and use Knoppix for
Desktop-oriented deployments. Works like a charm. ;)
(Actually, I sometime even use Knoppix for servers, as I carry often an
"emergency" Knoppix with me. ;) )
Andreas
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