Re: [debian-knoppix] Why so much swap with knx-install?
On January 26, 2003 02:07 pm, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> Am Samstag, 25. Januar 2003 22:25 schrieb Gilles Pelletier:
> Well, it's rather simplistic, but the Debian install is surely not really
> difficult. Still Knoppix is nice, because it comes with "preconfigured" apt
> sources.
I suppose most of these should be commented off. Maybe this should be
explained in knx-install installation instructions. For exemple, I suppose
one nearby server at Laval U in Quebec city, Quebec, is fairly up to date. I
believe they like Debian A LOT over there.
> > I succeeded in installing Debian but, whereas configuring ppp is a cinch
> > with any other distro, Kppp was nowhere to be found. The was an option
> > for ADSL configuration instead. I tried using wvdial, but wasn't sure the
> > permissions I had so set to get it working as a user wouldn't get me into
> > trouble.
>
> Well configuring ppp without Kppp or any other GUI is not that difficult :)
The KDE team doesn't share this opinion. Apparently it was quite a feat for a
very talented programmer to have users share a connection without any
security problem.
> > So I got back to Slackware because I had some experience with it. Debian
> > developpers efforts were lost for me because some weirdo expert decided
> > it wasn't necessary to provide kppp.
>
> Well, it's included:
> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=kppp&searcho
>n=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
I'm very happy to learn it. Had I known better about Debian, I would have
found it in no time at all. But I had already been through this horrible
install script(1) . So, for stupid newbies like me, it would be a nice to
leave the Kppp configuration option in the menu.
(1) This is not only my opinion, but that of many reviewers on the net. So
please refrain from telling me how easy it is. Flying a 747 is very easy once
you've RTFM.
Saying "Well, it's included" is a typical exemple of an organisation going
berserk. No individual half in his right mind would do something like this.
No other distro I've tried has done this... save Debian.
> > I'm sure you couldn't care less and that Debian would do great even if no
> > newbie ever came to use it.
>
> Well, admittingly Debian is rather on the Power-user (admin) side of
> things. If you try to please the statistical mainstream you get something
> that pleases nobody :)
You mean power users would mind if Kppp had been left in the menu... or other
things like that? There's something in this reasonning I don't quite get and
I'd be very grateful if you wouldN'T explain.
> It's not about security "safety". It's about configuration "safety".
> Debian Woody is extremely conservative in packages updates. This has good
> sides, like having a stable environement. And this is bad, because you are
> left out of the exciting new features (and bugs). That's why there is
> something like "testing" and "unstable" in Debian.
In the Potato times, some young men here, in Montreal, tried to install Woody
before it was deemed stable. They certainly knew much more than me about
Debian and Linux in general. Some where even regular Debian users... but they
never succeeded. I wonder if testing is so much easier to install now. I
guess we should ask Klaus...
> > Still, since hwdata is there for the taking, I don't understand why
Errr... That was meant to be "hwsetup"
> > Debian doesn't use it. (Klaus has never been ashamed of taking from
> > Debian and even Red Hat!) It wouldn't prevent sysadmins from using the
> > Debian's script... thought I doubt they would. If a real sysadmin should
> > be able to install any distro even without a script, in the real world,
> > speed is often an issue.
>
> Well, Debian seems to be a bit of conservative. That's somehow an
> interesting trait, one usually associated with bankers. (Perhaps Debian a
> high percentage of Bankers reborn as IT-professionals? *grin*)
>
> > Note: I don't intend on pursuing this discussion. I've never succeeded in
> > having a Debian devotee agree that there is something less than perfect
> > about Debian. So all this is just IMHO. We'll see how things turn out.
>
> Well, Debian is not perfect. But that's a philosophical problem (how do you
> define a common definition of perfect?).
Perfection might be achieved in art, but scientists are always striving
towards a vanishing point (point de fuite) . I you want to attain perfection
in science, it's that you have no idea of what science is. Mainly in computer
science, you might only hope to be at the cutting edge. (Which also includes
security and safety) . The laid back "ready when it's reading" attitude is
no way to get there. To learn how you're doing, a comparision is essential.
> As I see it, I use Debian for Server-style deployments, and use Knoppix for
> Desktop-oriented deployments. Works like a charm. ;)
> (Actually, I sometime even use Knoppix for servers, as I carry often an
> "emergency" Knoppix with me. ;) )
Would carrying an "emergency" Debian 3 CD set add so much more weight? I'm
afraid you've already begun sinning against the Debian ideology. Which is
pretty good news :)
Gilles Pelletier
--
La Masse critique
http://pages.infinit.net/mcrit
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