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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

"Bernhard R. Link" <brlink@debian.org> writes:
> * Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> [120224 13:05]:

>> How do you come to that conclusion?  It's not like you need to be a C
>> programmer to debug CSS files or a C programmer to debug Makefiles.

> As big a fan of Makefile that I am, but they are essentially
> undebugable.

Don't you think this is getting a little silly?  We all debug makefiles on
a daily basis as a routine part of packaging.  Yes, if they're doing
something particularly complex, you have to spend some time pouring over
make -d output, but I don't think I've ever had to do that with
debian/rules files even in rather complex cases.  Staring at the bug and
the makefile and thinking hard is usually sufficient.

One of the primary features of newer init systems like upstart and systemd
is that they take care of the routine stuff automatically and thereby
reduce the conceptual surface of your init script equivalent.  Simpler
things are inherently easier to debug; there are fewer variables.  Yes,
the underlying infrastructure has to not be buggy, just like make has to
not be buggy, but now you're talking about debugging systemd or make, not
your init script, and you now have the benefit of lots of eyes.

Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org)               <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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