Re: Debian IS for the enterprise
Quoting Mathieu Roy <yeupou@gnu.org>:
> Turbo Fredriksson <turbo@debian.org> a tapoté :
>
> > Tim> I really doubt that; I think the majority of the packages you
> > Tim> call crap don't have huge dependencies or are heavily
> > Tim> dependent upon. Unless of course you call things like glibc,
> > Tim> perl, gcc or the base of gnome and kde crap that is.
> >
> > Rubbish! Once up on a time, when Debian GNU/Linux WAS for the Enterprise
> > (ie, it had the quality needed to call it an Enterprise distribution)
> > we managed to release in a quite reasonable time. And Debian wasn't big,
> > but still had everything that one could ask for on a server.
>
> 1. Can you explain how this paragraph is related to the one you reply
> too (except of being posted on the same mailing-list with the same
> Subject: header)
> 2. Can you explain what makes you think that Enteprise is equal to
> server?
A server is part of an enterprise. It's also part of organisations, services
etc, but the main part of an enterprise (from the IT perspective) is the
servers. Without good and solid servers, you can't run an enterprise.
I've been working for companies, that had a very (!) relaxed view of the
servers, and they have ALL (!) gone bankrupt eventually, primarily because
the servers just couldn't deliver what the sales staff was selling...
I'm not saying that 'server' and 'enterprise' is the same thing. I'm saying
that without good and solid servers that deliver solid services, you don't
HAVE an enterprise....
> > I should say that SERVER is the keyword _I_ use when talking about
> >'Enterprise'... If you want a workstation, install SuSE, RH,
> >Whatever.
>
> 3. Now, next step, what makes you think that Debian specifically
> target?
Experience.
> 4. What makes you think that RedHat, for instance, specifically target
> Desktop computers?
Ditto.
Debian GNU/Linux have ALWAYS been targeted (primarily) for servers. To
provide a secure, stable distribution. And that is an absolute requirement
on a server (in my opinion).
> >But with the last few 'stable releases', I do not call it 'the best'
> >distribution any more! I'm getting quite feed up with the way
> >releases are handled... I don't mind late releases, as long as they
> >are GOOD!
>
> 5. So the latest releases are bad? How so?
The upgrade to woody sucked BIG! It required (big) knowledge on how the
distribution was organised, because there where lot's of dependency conflicts
etc. I can't remember in detail what there where, but I charged around
100 man hours to different customers that just couldn't do the upgrade
them self...
> 6. You do not mind "late release". So why do you argue about Debian
> not releasing stable in a "quite reasonable time"?
Because Debian have _always_ been late! It's getting ridiculous. This is something
we get bad credit for all the time, and EVERYONE complains about this. It is not
reasonable to run two-three year old software on a server. In three years,
a software have progressed so much in terms of performance and stability, that
it's just "business requirement" to have it upgraded. OpenAFS is one such example
that I run myself... The version in woody sucks (for me), compared to the latest one...
> > So when talking 'crud' and 'crap' here, I mean 'everything that is not
> > needed/wanted on a server'. Example on that is anything that uses a GUI
> > (ie, X11 stuff such as window managers, games), the lg-* (The Linux
> > Gazette) packages etc, etc... The list could be long...
>
> So everything that you have no interest in is crap. If I follow your
> policy, I should tell that your mail is definitely total crap.
> But well, even following others policies, I could reach such a
> conclusion.
Be my guest. If you can't read, or can't read between the lines, that's your
problem, not mine. I never, once!, said that "everything I'm not interested in
is crap". That was your words.
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