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Re: debconf template translation



Michael Bramer wrote:
> Yes, for the package integration, this will be the best way. I already
> make some (bugy) po debconf files for some testing. See 
> http://ddtp.debian.org/debconf/template_unstable/beep/templates-de.po

That's a first step..

Could you make it only put the file up if every string in it is
translated? I looked at base-config there and less than 50% of the
strings are translated for each language which indeed makes it useless.
If every string is translated I could write a program to periodically
refresh base-config's translations from the site. As it is I have much
more complete translations in base-config already than what is on the
site, and so the site continues to be almost useless for me.

Note that base-config should probably be one of your priorities to get
translated into all languges. If it is not, something is wrong.

> But sorry, I say it again: this is not a real solution for all packages (IMHO)
>  - some package maintains don't like translations (I don't need this
>    stuff, it is only work)
>  - some packages are not (really) maintained. 

I have a term for people with this kind of attitude, but the term is not
"Debian developer", nor is it suitable for polite company. This is a
social problem, and should have a social solution. Circumventing the
package/maintainer invarient in Debian is not the answer.

>  - if a package have a aktiv maintainer, he must choose: 
>    - he can make daily uploads with new/fixed translations, only work
>      and this all hit the autobuilders
>    - he can collect some translations stuff and make builds only all
>      weeks/months

Realistically, this is only an issue until all (~780) packages have had
their debconf templates fully translated into n languages, after that
revving is only necessary for new languages, bug fixes, and changed
English text. The last of these is already something maintainers of
debconf transltions are aware of; lintian nags unmercifully[1] when your
package's translations are out of date. This is a sufficient motivation.
The first I explain how to handle below, and bug fixes are bug fixes.

I'd suggest something like this:

1. DDTP finishes translating all debconf templates, fully, for n
   languages. You pick them, one would hope they'd include the big
   languages.
2. DDTP announces that everyone who has a debconf-using package should
   now update its tranlations for all n languages. DDTP or others
   provide a simple command-line tool that can do just that, securely,
   with less than 2 minutes learning curve per developer. The tool is put
   in devscripts.
3. Wait 4 weeks, maybe sending a few reminders.
4. File bugs on the remaining 25% of packages.
5. Wait 4 weeks.
6. NMU the remaining 10% of packages and report their MIA maintainers to
   the MIA tracker. I assume this will take less than 1 month to
   complete.
7. To add a new language, go to 1.
8. Make sure that packages that are newly converted to use debconf
   go through steps 2-6.
9. Release Debian with full debconf support for all n languages.

Unless you expect that getting to step 1. will take longer than a month,
this will allow us to translate all the debconf templates in Debian to n
languages within 4 months time. I seriously doubt we'll be freezing
before then. If time does become a concern, you can lower n, or reduce
some of the other numbers of course.

[ debconf db thing ]
> A hack?

Yes, it is a technical hack around a perceived social problem.

> I only find the missing version controll system in debconf a problem.
> But this is not a translation only problem. This is a real debconf bug. 
> 
> I write a mail to you (joeyh) some days ago, you got this mail?

I have been digging my way out of a hole caused by a 1 month absense,
and that mail caught me at my most overloaded point. I have not had time
to look into it. I suggest you file a bug report or something, I don't
lose track of those. On first very breif glance you problably need a
specialized vrient of the stack dbdriver that does not copy stuff up the
stack. Or something.

-- 
see shy jo

[1] I get to see this every time I release base-config. And not be able
    to do anything about it. Which is why I keep pushing DDTP to help
    me..

W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country ca.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country cs.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country da.iso-8859-1
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country de.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country es.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country fr.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country gl.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country hu.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country it.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country ja.euc-jp
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country ko.euc-kr
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country nl.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country pl.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country pt_br.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country ru.koi8-r
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/country sv.iso-8859-1
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror ca.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror cs.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror da.iso-8859-1
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror de.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror es.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror fr.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror gl.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror hu.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror it.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror ja.euc-jp
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror ko.euc-kr
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror nl.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror pl.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror pt_br.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror ru.koi8-r
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/mirror sv.iso-8859-1
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/distribution cs.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/distribution de.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/distribution ko.euc-kr
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/distribution sv.iso-8859-1
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit ca.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit cs.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit de.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit es.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit gl.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit hu.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit it.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit ja.euc-jp
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit ko.euc-kr
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit nl.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit pl.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit pt_br.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit ru.koi8-r
W: base-config: partially-translated-question apt-setup/badedit sv.iso-8859-1
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area ca.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area da.iso-8859-1
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area de.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area es.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area fr.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area gl.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area pl.iso-8859-2
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area pt_br.iso-8859-15
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area ru.koi8-r
W: base-config: partially-translated-question tzconfig/geographic_area sv.iso-8859-1

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