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Re: Debian on Pine64 H64B?

On September 9, 2021 9:46:34 PM UTC, Pete Batard <pete@akeo.ie> wrote:

Pete: thank you for pointing out that you've actively contributed, do keep emphasising that, it will help undo some of the damage.

i do get that you feel you're not making "demands": i have had people regularly misconstrue what i say for over 20 years.  thus, i am actually quite "entuned" now to the subtleties

>If you read my posts carefully, you find that the only slight request 
>that I have made is that Debian (i.e. people on this list whom I expect
>to know better) should

the two key phrases which tell us the mis-step that you keep making are "whom i expect to know better" and "should".

it *really isn't* ok to make what can only be described as "implication-loaded statements" about individual contributors that are in effect Sovereign entities.

"should" implies that you are directly criticising them for *not* doing something... for which, like any Sovereign State, you have absolutely no right whatsoever to expect them to do, and have zero control, leverage or contractual or financial or feudal right over them.

"expect to know better" is again along the same lines: much as i hate to have to spell this out to you, it's terribly insulting.  it comes with the loaded implication that "everything they did - unpaid, remember - before you came along, is shit. because *you* said so".

now, that may actually be true, but if it is, and you hsve evidence to bsck it up, then as a newcomer you have to be *really* careful about how you go about presenting that.

what may surprise you is that it *actually doesn't matter* whether what you suggest as an alternative to the "shit" is good or not: it's the very fact that you *expected* them to do it [without offering any financial compensation or other reward or incentive, which would result in a contractual or moral obligation where both parties satisfactorily get what they want]

when you have accepted that, you'll do ok.

phrases that you *should* find ok to use is:

* "IN MY VIEW, dotdotdot"
* "in MY opinion"
* "the way *I* see it is..."
* "MY feeling is..."
* "*I* would like to see... {some envisaged but entirely conditional action}"

you notice how all of those involve the PERSONAL (singular) pronoun? the sentences they prefix should in NO WAY make ANY IMPLICATION or impose ANY OBLIGATION on ANYONE [other than you, yourself]

the phrases put a "safe ringfence" around what you say, where other people cannot cross the line and criticise *you* for saying what you did, because it's YOUR personal and Sovereign Opinion.

to make ANY criticism no matter how indirect, or to make ANY implication of expectation of effort by ANYONE other than YOURself is and always will be COMPLETELY inappropriate on any Software Libre Community Project.

once you have understood and accepted this, you'll do ok.

> [...]
>new methods of installing Debian, as well as other more worrying 
>misconceptions, including the false assertion, which you are positing 
>here again, that myself or other people are somehow demanding stuff

unfortunately, you are: you just don't yet appreciate or understand how.

this lack of empathy and understanding of perspective is actually surprisingly common amongst people working for significant periods of time with computers [example: for me, that's since 1977], and particularly common for younger people who have not grown up with software libre and mailing lists [example: i'm 51, and been using internet-enabled computers since 1988].

it is your responsibility to work out why you're irritating people, and to learn the ground rules of interacting with Sovereign Individuals (aka Software Libre Contributors aka debian developers aka volunteers).

it's great that you're an active developer: the next step, if it appeals and interests you, would be to ask questions of people, "is what i've done useful to anyone, if so how can it be packaged or otherwise made available"

that tells people you're listening, and that's the best thing you can do right now.


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