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Re: Debian on Pine64 H64B?

Boy are people misinterpreting my intent here, as well as making me say things (such as "Debian isn't as suits me") that I didn't say.

Vagrant has properly conveyed what I wanted to state, and that should have been the end of it. But you still have to come around, to misinterpret the message as well as continue to propagate the falsehood that I am complaining about the current state of Debian for the Pi, or demanding that Debian does anything in that respect, despite the fact that, as much as it may go against the nice portrait of me you have constructed, I have long taken matters in my own hands (along with the help of other contributors) to ensure that:

1. There was an SBBR compliant UEFI firmware that people could use to install Debian from the unmodified vanilla ISOs. e.g:
 - https://github.com/tianocore/edk2/commits?author=pbatard
 - https://github.com/tianocore/edk2-platforms/commits?author=pbatard

2. Fixes were applied to Debian to ensure that it could be installed with said firmware. e.g.
 - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=967918
 - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=985956
And just for the record, these aren't "Hey, this doesn't work, you guys fix this" bugs but "Here's a patch to fix this issue" bugs, for which I directly contributed a patch...

3. Guides were written to provide step by step details on how a user could go on installing Debian on Pi 3 or Pi 4, against which I have also been providing support. e.g.
 - https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=282839
- https://pete.akeo.ie/2019/07/installing-debian-arm64-on-raspberry-pi.html

So I'm afraid that your assertion that I am somehow not taking responsibility, or not volunteering my time to improve Debian as well as other Open Source projects, or that I am entitled, or making demands, is falling completely flat on its face.

Like many others in this thread, your are picking bits and pieces of what you *believe* people are stating, instead of reading what they are actually saying. And that is the precise reason we are still going at it, when Vagrant's post should have been a more than appropriate coda.

If you read my posts carefully, you find that the only slight request that I have made is that Debian (i.e. people on this list whom I expect to know better) should stop advertising pre-built images as the one solution to install Debian on the Pi 3 or Pi 4, when there exists an alternative for which a lot of people (including Debian maintainers, EDK2 people, myself, and many others) have invested quite a lot of effort in, and that have now reached a sufficient enough level maturity.

I have not been asking anything else than that. Instead, I have been trying to counter, just like Vagrant did, the ridiculous idea that the non free Pi firmware blobs were some kins of issue that precluded these new methods of installing Debian, as well as other more worrying misconceptions, including the false assertion, which you are positing here again, that myself or other people are somehow demanding stuff from Debian.

So please don't misconstrue response to falsehoods, such as the ones you have produced below, with complaining or demanding. I believe that I have been doing enough more than enough work to be in a position to try to dispel said falsehoods when I see them, regardless of whether people are able to correctly interpret what I am trying to say (like Vagrant did) or not (like you did).



On 2021.09.09 21:24, lkcl wrote:

On September 9, 2021 4:17:08 PM UTC, Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@debian.org> wrote:

I think I missed that decree...  I daresay, this argument has been
running around in circles, based on some false assertions...

and a sense of "entitlement". yes, you, Pete Batard: you carry a strong "entitlement" vibe.  an expectation that debian "should" do something or be something, and complaining about how debian isn't as suits *you*.

you know how that can be ascertained? each time soneone says "if you feel that way here's how you can contribute" you *don't reply* with a "thank you i'll get right on that".

as vagrant points out, and so did paul, debian is about *volunteering* and being empowered and empowering others by getting down and dirty and actually *doing something*.

if you had said, "debian doesn't work as i demand it to be when compared to the expectations in my own head THEREFORE i TOOK RESPONSIBILITY for that and here's a patch whom do i send it to?" *now* you got people's attention in a positive way, even though the start of the sentence, if you actually genuinely wrote it like that, would make you look like a bit of a tit, yet, hilariously, you'd fit right it.

at the moment as things stand you've managed to piss off at least one long-term debian contributor, are getting strong repeated group-reinforced diplomatic hints from several other long-term developers, and have had even me raise eyebrows several times at the rather alarming misassertions you've made.

debian *isn't* a "one thing" (it's thousands of completely independent sovereign volunteers). it's certainly not a company. you don't get to make demands of "debian", it's like pissing up-wind: it's just going to come right back at you, in your own face.

please, take the hint, ok? *we know* it's a pissy situation with non-free firmware. *listen* to the reactions and feedback you're getting, and either start helping or for goodness sake at least stop damn well complaining and making thousands of people on this list feel miserable and underappreciated for the work that they do. unpaid.


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