On 2019-03-21 17:36 +0000, Nasir El-Amin wrote: > I haven’t once mentioned Jews. I’ve mentioned Israelis which are citizens of > Israel. There are Jews worldwide especially of the Orthodox that 100% condemn > the existence of Israel. This isn’t a Jew vs Muslim issue. This is a Israel vs > Muslims Isn't it an Isreal vs Palestinians issue? (not all Palestinians are Muslims, or indeed members of any sky-faerie club). > issue and the fact that Israel exists through the theft of land, > genocide, oppression and even blockading of the most basic of humanitarian > supplies. Palestinians die everyday at the hand of Israel. You can’t tip toe > around this issue and say there are Israelis that don’t support what’s > happening that’s not true. Every Israeli supports the theft of land because > they are by their presence on the stolen land complicit in the theft. Every > Israeli is complicit in the genocide to because it’s not some fringe politics > but it is the national political discourse of Israel to treat Palestinians the > way they are treated. > > You can defend Israel or you can be in the right side of history and stand with > the Palestinians, United Nations, Human Rights Watch, BDS and countless > organizations and human rights officials worldwide who condemn what’s happened > and continues to happen in Israel. > > Israel doesn’t have any right to exist it’s a apartheid and stolen land. Nasir, you are in danger of losing your audience here. You are quite right that Israel is an apartheid state run by terrible people and the Palestinians have been shamefully treated for decades. Decent people should probably boycott it (I say 'probably' because boycotts are double-edged swords). But you go too far by blaming every Israeli citizen for what their state does. I think reasonable people will make a distinction between normal people living in Israel (and quite probably wishing their government didn't persist in making the country an international pariah) and settlers who continue to occupy the West Bank and amplify the oppression, aided by the government. Tzafrir is, so far as I can tell, a perfectly decent bloke, who I hope is embarrased by/ashamed of many of the actions of his country, but it's not right to blame him, in the same way that I'm not responsible for Brexit or further fosil fuel extraction developments in the UK (both fucking stupid policies with which I profoundly disagree, but I'm not going to leave and try to change citizenship because of them- I instead act within the country to try and get better policies). I'm sure quite a lot of DD's agree with your central point, but you need to distinguish between citizens and governments - they are not the same. Failing to do so gets you a listmaster warning, as you have observed. There is an important line there. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/
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