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Re: Question to all: Outreach



On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 8:12 PM Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:30 PM Jonathan Carter wrote:
>
> > ...
>
> Thanks for the info, those details are interesting.
>
> > Non-uploading DD's existed at the time, I just had no interest in
> > becoming a non-uploading DD when it was already my intent to become an
> > uploading DD.
>
> I don't think any one membership state should be perceived as "final",
> people gain and relinquish both upload privileges and membership
> (going from non-member to uploading DD and then non-uploading DD etc).
> Also, I assume that non-member -> uploading DD and non-member ->
> non-uploading DD -> uploading DD are basically the same amount of
> time/work. I suppose the latter even has the advantage of splitting up
> that time/work over time. I think I like the idea of de-coupling the
> membership from upload privileges even more somehow.
>

I 100% concur, and I'm very happy you pointed this out. I'd love to work 
with you (and whomever else would like to help) to figure out how to do as 
you say and decouple membership from upload privileges even more.

> I was involved when the DPL and DebConf people talked about it,
> > they simply agreed that it's not an issue and that you don't have to be
> > a DD in order to be on the DebConf committee.
>
> It sounds like the DPL (and others) at the time wasn't aware of the
> constitutional issue brought up earlier in the thread.
>
> > TBH I'm having trouble following your line of questioning and exactly
> > what you're concerned about, if I missed something, please ask again and
> > keep it to one question per paragraph.
>
> I'm simply probing why we get into the situation where we get people
> who are not yet members but we want them to be more central to the
> Debian organisation than most members are. My motivation is that this
> situation has always seemed strange to me so I want to understand it
> better. This is getting off-topic so this will be my last mail in the
> thread.

I wasn't aware of how widespread this has become. I've found at least 
2-3 teams that have this case. I think we can resolve this, as most
of the teams in question don't just consist of non-members, so the 
simple short term fix for the next DPL might be to make it clear that
non-members are listed as team members but not delegates, and long term
work with the teams to encourage those folks who feel they share the
project's values, to work towoards membership. If elected to DPL I
commit to this path.

> -- 
> bye,
> pabs
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
>
>


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 8:12 PM Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:30 PM Jonathan Carter wrote:

> ...

Thanks for the info, those details are interesting.

> Non-uploading DD's existed at the time, I just had no interest in
> becoming a non-uploading DD when it was already my intent to become an
> uploading DD.

I don't think any one membership state should be perceived as "final",
people gain and relinquish both upload privileges and membership
(going from non-member to uploading DD and then non-uploading DD etc).
Also, I assume that non-member -> uploading DD and non-member ->
non-uploading DD -> uploading DD are basically the same amount of
time/work. I suppose the latter even has the advantage of splitting up
that time/work over time. I think I like the idea of de-coupling the
membership from upload privileges even more somehow.

I 100% concur, and I'm very happy you pointed this out. I'd love to work with you (and whomever else would like to help) to figure out how to do as you say and decouple membership from upload privileges even more.

> I was involved when the DPL and DebConf people talked about it,
> they simply agreed that it's not an issue and that you don't have to be
> a DD in order to be on the DebConf committee.

It sounds like the DPL (and others) at the time wasn't aware of the
constitutional issue brought up earlier in the thread.

> TBH I'm having trouble following your line of questioning and exactly
> what you're concerned about, if I missed something, please ask again and
> keep it to one question per paragraph.

I'm simply probing why we get into the situation where we get people
who are not yet members but we want them to be more central to the
Debian organisation than most members are. My motivation is that this
situation has always seemed strange to me so I want to understand it
better. This is getting off-topic so this will be my last mail in the
thread.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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