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Re: Re-Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 06:23:30PM +0530, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> On Friday 17 October 2014 05:10 PM, Olav Vitters wrote:
> >> > The world isn't just GNOME.
> > The issue is bigger than just GNOME. Think of e.g. UPower. There is
> > various other software which is affected by this. Requiring people to do
> > your bidding is against the Debian social contract. While this is pretty
> > much what the GR is about. Seems unrealistic, plus seems you're voting
> > on something without knowing any specific ("just GNOME"). If you expect
> > upstream/Debian packager teams to take people who cannot bother to
> > inform themselves on their topic serious, then geez... good luck but
> > you're heading towards a wall.
> Not just UPower. UDisks, PolicyKit and many more. And if we don't take a
> sensible stand, soon hostname, cron, dns, network, power etc.
> In Debian, until the decision in Feb, everything worked with sysvinit.
> And then eventually it broke. As we speak today, Udisk + Upower + PolKit
> (experimental) does work again.

That's not a result of Debian going for systemd. It is a result of
upstream decisions. If you're maintaining something and part of the
functionality is provided by systemd, then it is up to the maintainer to

> Buy my point is, things used to work neutrally. Why can't we strive to
> do that?

Because you're requesting the same functionality to be duplicated.

You're also confusing things. The GR is within Debian, while in your
email you're talking about upstream decisions/changes.

> Have the systemd support. I don't think anyone is opposing that. But
> don't bring that at the cost of an alternate neutral option.

So who will maintain that code?

> Why is SysV Init so unacceptable ? It is a neutral init that serves well
> for all our sub-projects. Let that be the default choice.

I'm not about other init systems. I'm after forcing people to do your
bidding. If some work has to be done, go ahead and do it. Alternative
logind? Cool! But the systemd-shim is a fork, seems to rely on cgmanager
(think nogo on non-Linux), etc.

If you want to force changes at upstream, go ahead. This is a GR within
Debian. So as an upstream I'd expect Debian to do the work as well as
the ongoing maintenance to make it happen.


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