[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Your opinion on Debian Maintainer status

On 2013-03-17 14:50, Moray Allan wrote:
On 2013-03-17 00:13, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
while reviewing the vote that introduced the Debian Maintainer status in 2007 (http://www.debian.org/vote/2007/vote_003_tally.txt) I noticed
that Lucas voted in favor and that Moray voted against it.
Moray, why did you vote against?
I'll follow up to explain this soon, but I need to check a couple of
things, in case I'm misremembering details from 2007.

And here's the first part of the full-disclosure answer, on the
historical aspects.

I already had a long-standing interest in how we integrate new contributors into Debian. See for example this 2005 talk with Hanna Wallach and Dafydd Harries:

Debian New Maintainer Process: History and Aims. DebConf5, Helsinki, July 2005.

A couple of points from that talk:

"What matters?

- Appropriate outlook: free software
- Sufficient skills"

"NM as a citizenship process

- Clear route to becoming a full member
- NM could focus on bringing people into Debian, rather than keeping them out - Building a feeling of responsibility and commitment to the Debian project as a whole, and to the community"

I'm sure you (Raphaël) can remember some of the arguments on each side of the GR, since you were rather a major participant in the discussion
but I'll give a summary below for others reading this.

I didn't participate in the GR discussion -- note that it happened during DebConf7 while I was working on local arrangements for the conference!


The point of adding this extra process wasn't clear to everyone
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00062.html

But arguments used in favour included:

The NM process sets too high a barrier for people who want to maintain one package
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00054.html

Getting sponsors is annoying
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00063.html

Not everyone wants full DD status
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00050.html
or https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00105.html

This was a good way to work around problems with the NM process or account creation
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00091.html
though others in the "for" camp claimed this wasn't right
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00046.html

Arguments against included:

This was creating second-class DDs
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00043.html
or https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00067.html

Adding a new status was overcomplicating things
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00043.html

This was just an attempt to work around perceived problems with the NM process or account creation
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00043.html

If we wanted to change things, we should just change the NM process
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00058.html

If people don't want full DD rights, they're free just not to use them
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00111.html

If people genuinely don't want to be associated with us, they shouldn't be part of the project at all
e.g. https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00090.html

If you want to go back further, there was a previous discussion
at that point things were still vague, without a detailed proposal, and therefore the issues were a bit different though.

For my actual vote, if I recall correctly:

- I just wasn't persuaded that adding another status, rather than modifying something about the NM process, made sense.

- I didn't see the sense in allowing people to upload freely (even for single packages), but not making them eligible for membership privileges.

- The people proposing the GR saw it as widening access. Due to the above two points, for me, it seemed like narrowing it. I could understand reasons for initially putting *technical* restrictions on new contributors, but if we reached the point of fully trusting someone with a package (and therefore root privileges on every machine where it's installed), and giving them a formal status in Debian, I felt that we should already recognise them as members. Though the GR proposers said that it was for people who would not have otherwise have had any status at all, I was worried that the effect was to shut some formally recognised contributors out of membership.

Therefore I was part of the about 38% of people who voted against the GR, see curl -s http://www.debian.org/vote/2007/vote_003_tally.txt | grep -v "^....1"


Reply to: