Re: debian 8.2 live "standard" install - how to set up wifi?
On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 20:28:07 +0000, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat 28 Nov 2015 at 22:22:30 +0300, moxalt wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 12:36:35 +0000, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat 28 Nov 2015 at 10:52:46 +0300, moxalt wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 19:58:46 +0000, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This bothers me. You install without any tasks (that's ok) and
> > > > > networking is there when the new systam boots? Are you installing
> > > > > over a wireless link? Just to emphasise - no wired connection is
> > > > > present.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, networking is just there.
> > >
> > > This still bothers me. :)
> > >
> > > If networking is just there why, as you say later, do you have to bring
> > > wlan0 up? Also, how do you manage to have eth0 in the output of
> > > 'ifconfig' when the wireless interface has been chosen for installing?
> > > It cannot be in /etc/network/interfaces.
> >
> > Let me clarify what I meant by networking just being there. I did not say
> > that a connection would be up and running straight away- just that all
> > relevant network interfaces would be available for me to connect over. It
> > is not the case that I am able to use internet straight away after booting-
> > I have to actually connect to things with tools like wpa_supplicant,
> > iwconfig, etc.
>
> You have clarified the situation immensely. In fact, you have confirmed
> that netcfg behaves as it is presently designed to, Without any selected
> DE task and installing over a Wifi connection there is no connectivity
> after finishing the install. You have to configure, as you say. some
> software.
>
> When I first met this I was quite astounded; why no connectivity even
> though it present during installation?
>
> The thinking would appear to be that someone who does not install
> network manager or install over a wired connection wants to set up
> networking afterwards. This is what you actually did, without being
> aware of netcfg's intentions. You used your initiative because you had
> to if you wanted to connect to other machines.
>
> > By the way, it seems I've been putting wlan0 up needlessly this whole time.
> > I taught myself how to do command-line networking off some Ubuntu tutorial
> > that said I should do it (probably just to cover all cases) and have been
> > doing ifconfig <interface> up this whole time for no reason. After reading
> > the ifconfig man page, it seems the kernel uses ifconfig to put all
> > interfaces up at boot anyway, after which they are all up (as indicated by
> > ifconfig run with no arguments).
>
> How did you establish the connectivity that d-i did not provide?
When did I say that debian-installer provided no connectivity? I successfully
installed over WLAN using it.
> It
> could only be through a wired connection or wpasupplicant using ifupdown
> or NM (or wicd, I suppose). You are obviously connected now, so you must
> have done something to rectify being unable to access the internet.
wpa_supplicant, ifconfig, and dhclient.
> > What is strange, though, is that when I boot using the 'text'
> > LINUX_CMDLINE_DEFAULT GRUB kernel parameter, and then type ifconfig wlan0
> > up in the tty, a dmesg message appears declaring 'Link not ready' or
> > something to that effect- and then it goes on working just fine. Does
> > anyone else see this happening?
> >
> > After I investigated, your second point sent shivers of spooky down my
> > spleen. The contents of /etc/network/interfaces are as follows:
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
> > # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
> >
> > source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
> >
> > # The loopback network interface
> > auto lo
> > iface lo inet loopback
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Neither eth nor wlan are there!? You were right when you said they couldn't
> > be in /etc/network/interfaces. However, the mystery continues- ifconfig
> > reports the following:
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr f4:6d:04:89:e3:01
> > UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
> > RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
> > TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
> > collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
> > RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)
> >
> > lo Link encap:Local Loopback
> > inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
> > inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
> > UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:65536 Metric:1
> > RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
> > TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
> > collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
> > RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)
> >
> > wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr e0:b9:a5:22:b9:43
> > inet addr:192.168.1.109 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
> > inet6 addr: fe80::e2b9:a5ff:fe22:b943/64 Scope:Link
> > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
> > RX packets:6373 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
> > TX packets:2862 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
> > collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
> > RX bytes:4755201 (4.5 MiB) TX bytes:400106 (390.7 KiB)
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At a guess (which I dislike doing) you have network manager (or some
> other wireless package) installed.
>
> > lo, wlan0, and eth0 are all there! I am but a humble luser, and have no idea
> > what is going on.
> >
> > > > I boot with a netinstall USB, select my wireless interface for the
> > > > installation, and networking just works after I've rebooted. Both eth0,
> > > > wlan0, and lo appear in my ifconfig list. The firmware is correctly
> > > > installed and everything works. All that remains is to put wlan0 up,
> > > > connect to my router with wpa_supplicant, and get an IP with dhclient.
> > > > After that, I'm good to go.
>
> But you cannot be good to go. You have no connectivity; networking
> doesn't "just work. You had to have done something to make it work. You
> said as much earlier on.
What do you consider to be 'just working'? If by 'just working' you mean that
an internet connection is already available straight after boot, with no extra
work, this is not the case. By 'just working' I am referring to the interfaces
being present and the requisite firmware being installed.
Upon boot (after installation over wireless with no tasks selected) I am only
two commands away from a network connection-
# wpa_supplicant -Dnl80211 -iwlan0 -c.wlan-conf -B
# dhclient wlan0
I consider that 'just working'.
> > > I'd better say why I am bothered.
> > >
> > > D-I sets up networking with netcfg. The file
> > >
> > > /usr/lib/finish-install.d/55netcfg-copy-config
> > >
> > > in the package has
> > >
> > > # Check for preseeding. If the value of the question is empty then set
> > > # default options. Document automatic selection changes in the template.
> > > if [ -z "$RET" ]; then
> > > if $NM_IS_INSTALLED; then
> > > db_set netcfg/target_network_config $CONFIG_NM
> > > else
> > > if [ "$NETCFG_CONNECTION_TYPE" = "wired" ]; then
> > > db_set netcfg/target_network_config
> > > $CONFIG_INTERFACES else # wireless
> > > db_set netcfg/target_network_config
> > > $CONFIG_LOOPBACK fi
> > > fi
> > > fi
> > >
> > > If NM is not installed (which is what would happen with no tasks) and no
> > > wired install the only stanza written to /e/n/i at the end of the
> > > install is a loopback one. That is, metworking is not there after first
> > > boot.
> >
> > My installation appears to have thus defied the laws of physics, Debian
> > installation, and bash scripting.
> >
> > I installed a completely minimal setup with no tasks selected, using wlan0
> > as my installation network interface. Lo and behold, upon boot everything
> > works as described.
> >
> > Can someone else try installing like I did and see if the same occurs?
>
> We'll see.
I'm actually just going to reiterate what happened, because there appears to
have been a little bit of a misunderstanding.
I used a Debian netinstall USB to install my current system. I selected wlan0
as my network interface to use for the purposes of the installation. I selected
no tasks, so only a minimal console setup was installed.
The installation carried out and concluded successfully. Upon reboot, ifconfig
reported the existence of lo, eth0, and wlan0. I then used wpa_supplicant to
authenticate with my router, and dhclient to request an IP address. After that,
I was able to access the internet (apt-get update, browsing with lynx, etc.).
I had to do this every subsequent boot to get internet access.
After several months of booting into a tty, setting up an internet connection,
and then starting X manually, I decided to install MATE, LightDM, and NM, which
is what I currently use. Prior to that, I had no network manager of any sort
installed.
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