Re: Moderated posts?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
On 13/10/2014 4:22 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Lu, 13 oct 14, 02:50:18, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>> There is an amazing level of resistance to care what us users and
>> sysadmins think of the changes dictated by the vote of the Tech CTTE and
>> such consequences. One can only hope the message is finally getting
>> through to at least enough DDs to result in an appropriate GR that leads
>> to a genuine and fair vote to put this matter to bed. At least then,
>> we'll know if we need to jump ship to perhaps kFreeBSD, FreeBSD or some
>> other Linux that refuses to be roped in to the systemd nightmare that we
>> are seeing strong evidence of here. Myself, I would be looking at
>> kFreeBSD as the next best alternative and if that suffers over this,
>> then a full migration away from Debian to a direct use of FreeBSD.
>
> You seem to be ignoring some facts:
Believe me, I tried to ignore all the noise of the systemd threads, then
I decided to look a bit further -- perhaps you should too.
> - you don't speak for the users, at least not for me, but certainly at
> least a few other subscribers (though I guess a lot of them actually)
Sure, I don't speak for you, but I am definitely seeing lots of people
with very genuine problems and those people are being ignored. I
initially thought, what the heck, why should I worry about this at all
- -- I just though, well systemd is a forgone conclusion, why all the
whingers? But as I said, I read more closely and widely and realized
that the whingers were doing Debian a real service and not the other way
around.
> - you seem to forget that DDs are users too, yet the proposed GR didn't
> even get the minimum required number of sponsors (5).
I expect it will happen, so long as people are serious about the real
effects of this very negative change to Debian defaults, irregardless of
the ability to [in the short term], remove systemd and re-instate
sysvinit if you know what you are doing. However, as you most probably
realize, the "tyranny of the default" is our enemy here and all those
package builders/maintainers that are needlessly following as sheep to
the slaughter, siding with systemd for whatever reason .. well we've got
a very serious problem indeed.
> Does the term "vocal minority" mean anything to you?
No, read above. I initially thought the same, but have since learnt
otherwise. Please take the time to read through posts and show some
real empathy for the problems presented by real users and NOT by a small
vocal minority.
You want some more evidence that this is a huge abomination? Have a
look at the following:
<quote from another on a different list>
My take is Red Hat has the money and the grunt to shove it all the way
they want to go. But how many enterprise systems with Q&A plus other
such procedures will want to install something that is still evolving
and probably could not be considered stable with transparent processes
and development direction? Unless its all about RH offering sweet
microsoft-like deals to have enterprises adopt it.
Well maybe.... dunno. The big silence in this whole debate, and some of
you guys now I'm a rusted on slacker, is how Pat Volkerding will play
it. Eric Hammleers, core contributor to Slackware maintains a rolling
set of KDE packages that follow right behind KDE releases, one might say
he's rusted on to KDE.
However, in his blog he has recently written:
"Of course, the ConsoleKit successor systemd-logind, written by the same
team that gave us all the *Kit crap, depends on PAM which we also do not
have in Slackware. One of the fellow core developers in Slackware, who
is intimately familiar with the KDE developers community, has heard from
multiple sources that KDE is moving towards a hard dependency on systemd
(probably because they are going to need the functionality of
systemd-logind). We all know what that means, folks! It will be the day
that I must stop delivering you new KDE package releases for Slackware.
That’ll be the day."
http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/on-lkml-an-open-letter-to-the-linux-world/
I recon the fat lady will start singing sometime after Pat Volkerding
makes up his mind. I wonder what'd be happening now if Ian Murdock and
Pat Volkerding had merged Debian and Slackware as they were discussing
around 20 years ago.
</quote>
A.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
iF4EAREIAAYFAlQ6wiMACgkQqBZry7fv4vtbYQEAoe62Tcb9vZIqDN8uZwsoo/d7
1DHRFirY1P2DGEv6G1MA/AxhNjdNxY17PR3iZNhjPchELNqzQDw7LyZv5xRaFIVh
=dnHd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Reply to: