Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> wrote:
> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com> said:
>> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> wrote:
>>> Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit :
>>>> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić <ivanovnegro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that does
>>>>> not use it as its init system. It could be useful when you depend on Gnome 3
>>>>> software like network-manager but do not want to use systemd.
>>>>
>>>> AFAIUI:
>>>>
>>>> It's not clear that systemd-shim is going to be updated to deal with
>>>> systemd 208 (it works with systemd 204) because of changes in the
>>>> kernel's cgroup implementation because Ubuntu's switching to systemd
>>>> so it doesn't need to do so.
>>>>
>>>> So unless someone packages Ubuntu's cgmanager and patches logind 208
>>>> to use it (and perhaps does even more than that), it's unlikely that
>>>> systemd-shim will be useful in jessie as a systemd
>>>> mini-/micro-substitute.
>>>
>>> You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have
>>> choice" were actually false...
>>
>> You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it
>> with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated.
>>
>> The list of packages depending on logind is likely to grow so the list
>> of packages that you can install without an alternative is likely to
>> shrink.
> Just what I said : it was a lie to speak of default with alternatives,
> if less than a year after the alternatives are killed.
It wasn't a lie. It's the responsibility of those who want sysvinit to
be available and functional as an alternative sys-init to ensure that
it works.
I could yet be proven wrong but I don't see much of an impetus in
Debian to work on keeping sysvinit alive. There were two GR proposals
to go more or less against the CTTE vote and neither garnered the
required 5 sponsors to go through to a GR vote.
Furthermore the sysvinit proponents (judging from their posts in the
various systemd debian-devel@ threads) don't care about logind
integration.
> And looking at all the blocking bugs on systemd, I'm afraid. Such
> major change should be done gradually with well tested software, not
> software that beaks existing configurations.
>
> I wionder why so much haste ?
The systemd proponents felt that jessie was a better time to default
to systemd than jessie+1. I suspect that they'll turn out to be right
given that there's now a stable, lts-type systemd branch, that RHEL 7
(systemd-based) will be released this year, and that Ubuntu 14.10 is
intended (IIUC a recent Shuttleworth blog) to be systemd-based. So
there'll be an enterprise distribution in the wild with systemd as pid
1 and the Debian and Ubuntu systemd maintainers will have ironed out
most of the systemd issues by the time that jessie freezes in
November.
I'm sad that sysvinit's future seems pretty bleak but that's life.
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