Re: Choosing a distribution (was: Just a simple query)
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:10:53 -0300, francis picabia wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:41:46 -0300, francis picabia wrote:
>>
>>>> However I don't use Suse so I wouldn't be on top of the latest here. I
>>>> am talking about major upgrades, like 11 to 12, not 11.3 to 11.4.
>>>
>>> For such "big jumps" the official supported method is using the DVD
>>> (off- line upgrade) but AFAIK, it is the same here in Debian, only "one
>>> jump" is supported which does not mean that you cannot upgrade from
>>> Debian 4 to Debian 6, but like openSUSE, that scenario is noy
>>> "oficially" supported, but still you can do it if you want :-)
>>
>> Comparing apples to apples, Debian is able to do what Suse cannot.
>
> Facts, please. What you say is not "printed" anywhere but in your sole
> mind and of course your words contradict my personal experience ;-)
I can't find docs which say you can do a major version upgrade without booting
installation media in SUSE.
I do see this:
http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse114/book_opensuse_reference/?page=/documentation/opensuse114/book_opensuse_reference/data/book_opensuse_reference.html
Quote:
> 15.1.3 Upgrading with YaST
>
> Following the preparation procedure outlined in Section 15.1.1, Preparations, you can now > upgrade your system:
>
> Boot the system as for the installation, described in Section 1.4, System Start-Up for
> Installation. In YaST, choose a language and select Update in the Installation Mode
> dialog. Do not select New Installation. Also add repositories to make sure to get all
> available software updated whenever possible. Find more information about installation
> repositories in Section 1.7.1, Add-On Products.
That is pretty clear to me openSUSE is upgraded the same way you install,
booting from install media, taking the working OS down for some
significant time.
>
>> Debian can upgrade from 4 to 5, or 5 to 6, while running.
>
> openSUSE can also so it (review the URL I already posted in this same
> thread).
>
>> You never need to boot from the network or CD/DVD after the initial
>> Debian install. I have systems now running Debian 6 which were
>> initially installed as Debian 3.0.
>
> And there are people running openSUSE 11.4 boxes that started from SuSE
> Linux 10.1 or even from older releases, they also can run the upgrade
> smoothly :-)
>
>> Media such as CD/DVD have never been used on them since the 3.0
>> installation. "aptitude dist-upgrade" (or apt-get - whatever is in
>> vogue in the upgrade instructions), is the method to do a major
>> upgrade. One should reference the upgrade documentation for complete
>> instructions and caveats on any packages which are incompatible, tips
>> on use of screen, etc.
>
> Documentation and Release Notes are not "magic words" that prevent you
> from being hosed when running the live upgrade in Debian ;-)
I wouldn't say hosed, but without some expected service up for
some time until the issue is researched. Although a kernel can
stop a system from booting all on its own, but hopefully that can
be tested on similar hardware before.
> Again, maybe is that you have not tried openSUSE before but I did. And
> live upgrades are not only supported since 11.3 but they also work well,
> with the same problems you can encounter in Debian (maybe a bit more
> because this funcionality has been added recently).
I still not convinced your understanding of major version live upgrades is
the same as mine. I think you are talking about 11.3 to 11.4 and
such, whereas I'm talking about 10.4 to 11.0 and the like.
>
> On production servers and my own workstations, I never make live upgrades
> and always install the new system alongside with the old one. This has
> always been working well for me, it did when I used openSUSE and I will
> keep that path also for Debian.
It always nice to be able to afford new hardware for every upgrade
in the OS, but in my experience, it isn't possible. For something
like a redundant MX server, upgrading in place is workable. For mission
critical and non open source software, there are already a whole
bunch of reasons why the development or migration box needs
to be different.
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