Re: Choosing a distribution (was: Just a simple query)
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:10:53 -0300, francis picabia wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:41:46 -0300, francis picabia wrote:
>
>>> However I don't use Suse so I wouldn't be on top of the latest here. I
>>> am talking about major upgrades, like 11 to 12, not 11.3 to 11.4.
>>
>> For such "big jumps" the official supported method is using the DVD
>> (off- line upgrade) but AFAIK, it is the same here in Debian, only "one
>> jump" is supported which does not mean that you cannot upgrade from
>> Debian 4 to Debian 6, but like openSUSE, that scenario is noy
>> "oficially" supported, but still you can do it if you want :-)
>
> Comparing apples to apples, Debian is able to do what Suse cannot.
Facts, please. What you say is not "printed" anywhere but in your sole
mind and of course your words contradict my personal experience ;-)
> Debian can upgrade from 4 to 5, or 5 to 6, while running.
openSUSE can also so it (review the URL I already posted in this same
thread).
> You never need to boot from the network or CD/DVD after the initial
> Debian install. I have systems now running Debian 6 which were
> initially installed as Debian 3.0.
And there are people running openSUSE 11.4 boxes that started from SuSE
Linux 10.1 or even from older releases, they also can run the upgrade
smoothly :-)
> Media such as CD/DVD have never been used on them since the 3.0
> installation. "aptitude dist-upgrade" (or apt-get - whatever is in
> vogue in the upgrade instructions), is the method to do a major
> upgrade. One should reference the upgrade documentation for complete
> instructions and caveats on any packages which are incompatible, tips
> on use of screen, etc.
Documentation and Release Notes are not "magic words" that prevent you
from being hosed when running the live upgrade in Debian ;-)
Again, maybe is that you have not tried openSUSE before but I did. And
live upgrades are not only supported since 11.3 but they also work well,
with the same problems you can encounter in Debian (maybe a bit more
because this funcionality has been added recently).
>>> In Debian, the system can stay up and we don't boot from medium to
>>> perform a major upgrade. In Debian it requires only a quick couple of
>>> reboots to load the newer kernel, etc.
>>
>> The same remains true for openSUSE, as I said, since newer versions
>> (IIRC, 11.3 onwards).
>
> It seems they are just getting a capability Debian has had for a long
> time. For minor updates like Debian 6.0 to 6.1, it takes nothing
> special, just a regular 'aptitude safe-upgrade' while running.
Yes, as I said, this "feature" has been added just a few years ago which
means openSUSE is making a best effort to add new things that users are
asking for.
>>> That is pretty much like the Fedora life cycle. Yuck.
>>
>> Not quite. Fedora support cycle is even more limited (13 months!).
>
> That's why I said "pretty much". With Debian's continuous path of
> upgrades without downtime (other than quick reboot, which is 14 seconds
> on a virtual system such as KVM), it doesn't even feel like a life
> cycle.
On production servers and my own workstations, I never make live upgrades
and always install the new system alongside with the old one. This has
always been working well for me, it did when I used openSUSE and I will
keep that path also for Debian.
>>> Another thing that would make me hesitant is the future of Suse. A
>>> distro which is owned by someone new every few years comes with some
>>> uncertainty.
>>
>> That's always a risk, true. But now SuSE is a stand-alone business, no
>> more part of Novell but a self-managed project of Attachmate.
>
> This year, and then... ? I've seen a few software companies get traded
> around like this, and one of two things usually happens: it becomes
> absorbed into another product, or it flickers out.
Yes, it's a risk... but we all have to take risks. Sometimes are FLOSS
projects that get abandonned by upstream devels (lack of time, resources
or interest) and nobody take care of them. Sad but true, such is life :-(
> By 2020, I predict both Solaris and Suse will be gone or a minimal
> legacy install base. Debian will still be going strong.
Let's see what future deserves... Maybe your crystal ball needs to be
cleaned ;-)
Greetings,
--
Camaleón
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