Re: Query about Iceape, Iceweasel
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007, Nate Duehr wrote:
41 webpages open and you're experiencing problems. Gee, there's a big
surprise. You're somewhat pushing the bounds of sanity at that point, for
just about any browser.
(And my interest in helping with your problem just vanished completely. I
can't read 41 pages at a time, and neither can you. Perhaps you might argue
that the software should handle it perfectly, but at that level of insanity,
I certainly don't care anymore... as one user to another -- since I'm not a
developer or package maintainer -- I'd recommend the old adage of "Doctor it
hurts when I do this!" probably applies. "Then don't do that.")
I didn't expect bigotry on this list.
But then, if that's what the list is about, so be it.
In the browser window that I open for this country, I have about ten tab
bookmarks, and, of those, about 6 web pages automatically refresh. Due to
the bodgy way that the ABC presents its news web pages, apart from five
news headline web pages refreshing about every minute, each news story web
page that is open, also refreshes about every minute.
Yeah, it's the websites fault you're opening 41 web pages. LOL! We'll get
right on that... I'll attempt to contact the various badly-written websites
and see if they'll fix their sites just for you and little-old me. Sure they
will. Maybe after we're dead. Get real.
I hope that you are not a professional software developer.
If you are, and you tell customers to get stuffed, if they find fault
with your software, then I pity any customers that you have left. But
then, if they are stupid enough to stay with you, they so do at their
own peril.
A proverb exists; "Damnant quod non intelligunt" - "They condemn what
they do not understand". Without you knowing of the faults to which I
refer in the bodgy design of the web pages, you have no idea of what you
are denigrating.
But then, in the tone of your comments, that is not really surprising.
The bodgy design of the web pages, goes to the timestamps of the web
pages, being presented in relative (x minutes/hours ago), rather than
absolute (date and time of report) terms, thence, each story is updated
every minute, wasting bandwidth and cpu time for each system that has
such a web page open.
And, when web browsers do not release unused memory, instead increasing
memory and other resource usage, whenever a web page is opened or
reloaded, cumlative problems occur.
But then, details and the truth, appear to be of no interest to an
arrogant know-it-all, such as yourself.
At present, I have 22 Iceape browser windows open, with however many tabs
in total are open, and tsome of those tabs, are subject to automatic
refreshing.
That's utterly ridiculous. Have fun being a "test pilot". What you're
describing sounds more like a load test in a QA department than any normal
needs of anyone running a web browser!
So, you are telling us that Mozilla is incapable of producing a web
browser that can operate with more than one browser window and more than
one tab open, and that Mozilla is inapable of producing web browsers
that operate within limits of load defined by the developers, whereby,
a limit is reached, and a dialogue box appears, stating "You have
already too many browser windows/tabs open. You need to close some
browser tabs,windows, before opening any more." ?
Okay. So you say that Mozilla are incompetent software developers. I am
sure they would like for you to tell them that, directly.
On occasion, Iceape has taken above 95% of CPU, and that is when (but not
necessarily the only occasions when) it sometimes crashes of its own accord
(without me closing "untitled windows").
Yeah, well... whatever. You're so far out on a limb doing stuff that makes
no sense (no one can read 41 pages at a time) that what difference do the
details make at this point?
So, you do not have any books or newspapers, that have more than one
page of text, and you think that all publications that involve more
than one page of text, should be banned, as you are incapable of reading
more than one page of text at a time?
Okay.
I have earlier today, with these browser windows and tabs open, encountered
the problem with the "untitled windows".
I have also encountered the problem on occasions with 10 browser windows
open, and with 14 browser windows open, thence with less memory usage, both
"by programs" and "by cache".
I bet you have.
So, perhaps, if you want to try to reproduce the problem, you may need to
have more than just one instance of each of the two URL's that are included
in my message shown above as having the timestamp of 0130 AM.
I bet I would.
However, I'm no longer interested. Maybe some gung-ho developer or person
without a real life will go on a mission to reproduce your problem at this
point, but I doubt any sane person would spend much time on it. You're too
far outside of the normal use curve, methinks.
If you're interested in finding out what's wrong, tools are available on
Linux that don't really exist (without cost) on other OS's. For example, you
could start launching iceweasel inside of strace or other low-level debugging
tools and trying to trap the moment when the phantom windows pop up, to see
what it's really doing when it freaks out. You could also start downloading
nightly mozilla snapshots (after setting up a proper build environment) and
seeing if the latest versions also behave the way the Debian packaged version
do -- all things a developer/package maintainer might do, if they had a real
bug report to work from.
After your description of how many windows you typically have open, I doubt
many other end-users here will spend much time on it. You never know, though
-- someone may decide it sounds like an interesting challenge.
Oh, and, when I experience an application crash, and/or a gnome crash, I
reboot the system, to try to avoid residual memory problems.
The kernel should handle cleaning up application memory (or "permanently
caching" any memory that wasn't de-allocated at the iceweasel/iceape crashes.
Once cached, if never called for again they'll just sit there using some
swapfile space. Until that fills, I wouldn't worry about doing a full
reboot.
Well, it doesn't. That is why I reboot after each mentioned crash.
Because, the system monitor can show that up to 50% of the memory is
still being used with no tasks visible in the taskbar after such a
crash.
But then, I suppose you are more interested in making a noise, as
disturbing and annoying as possible, rather than examining the facts,
and determining a cause of a problem and seeking a solution.
Is your name really John MacEnroe?
Your thread now (to me personally anyway reads like this):
"Dear Debian community, I tried to drive the car you provided at RPM red-line
and excessive speeds for days on end, and it has exhibited some bad behavior
when I abuse it like that! The tires fell off, and once in a while it even
blows a head gasket, and has to be taken to the shop every few days!"
As the computer, having gigabytes of RAM, and, swap space that is seldom
used, is not placed under extreme load by the way that I use it, it is
not me that is running the system at extremes.
Of course, as you use the analogy of a car running continuously at the
red line, I suppose that you would say that, for a car to itself
accelerate when the engine is in use, so that the driver cannot control
the engine speed, the carburettor or some other part, automatically
causing the engine to race, without any rerstriction, is quite
acceptable, as it is the fault of the driver for turning the engine on
and trying to drive the car
I suppose, from your comments, that you are quite happy to drive a car
with no brakes, that, when a driver slightly depresses the accelerator
pedal, automatically accelerates the engine to the red line, and does
not allow the engine speed to decrease without turning off the engine.
Uh-huh. Yep.
Nate
And I wish you good luck with your much needed full frontal lobotomy,
and I hope that it eliminates your distemper, and makes you able to
coexist with other people.
--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............
"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992
....................................................
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