Kevin Mark wrote:
I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that there are many Free Software proponents who consider the "non-free" designated software as exactly that - non-free. Perhaps "not free enough" would be a better way of putting it.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 04:21:31PM -0600, John C wrote: <snip>Many in the Free Software Movement consider Debian and Ubuntu to be not "free" enough because they contain "non-free" software. It's one of the prime reasons for the startup of gNewSense.<snip> Are you saying that there is FSF- defined "non-free" software in Debian? Please identify this.
Personally, I like and want to keep the non-free portion of Debian exactly the way it is.
Evidence of the thinking I'm talking about can be found in the FAQ of gNewSense. One of the reasons given for starting the distribution is to get rid of all the non-free that is in Ubuntu and even in Debian. It specifically mentions Debians non-free software and some non-free bits in the kernel. Not sure exactly what their problem was with the kernel. Their statement in the FAQ is in no way derogatory towards Debian. It is more of a "we can do it even better" type statement.
There was an issue that RMS did not like the Debian installer mentioning 'non-free' repos and that Debian should not have offically hosted repos for non-dfsg software. The former issue was done. The latter, iirc, was not, but Debian states that it only supports DFSG software and devs dont spend much if any time on non-DFSG software as its not the Debian priority to develop DFSG software in favor of non-DFSG software. And the idea of gNewSense is rather strange: take 16000 DFSG softwares, fork 1000 of them, add better desktop integration for these 1000 apps, add non-DFSG bits, call it Ubuntu then remove the non-ubuntu-free bits and call it gNewSense.
We are in total agreement here.
which is sort of like using Debian but with better desktop integration and less apps.
I downloaded their live cd just for kicks, but have not tried their full disto. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm not sure they do have better desktop integration. But they definatly have fewer applications.
John