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Re: Using Ubuntu when I'm used to Debian.

On Wednesday 05 April 2006 13:16, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On  4 Apr 2006, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > I never said they were hostile toward me.  And that is not what
> > I've seen in terms of complaints.  It's usually along the lines of
> > "Why can't they edit text files, like we do?"  I have yet to see
> > someone complain that the problem with a gui or easy-to-use config
> > program is that it creates problems (other than Webmin).
>         Let me put it this way: I volunteer my time to scratch an
>  itch, usually something that I need for myself.  I also am concerned
>  with code complexity, ease of maintenance as well as ease of use,
>  and ease of use vs ease of learning.

Then, by your own admission, you're not volunteering your time.  You are 
writing a program YOU need.  The time you put in is to create what YOU 
need, not what others need.  (Your comments farther down support this 
even more.)  You are contributing code and a project, but not your 
time, since you've just made it clear what time you spend is on making 
what you need.  

That's like a man that lives in a cabin on the far side of a stream from 
the local town.  He builds a bridge so he can get to the town and then 
walks into town and boasts to everyone, "See that bridge?  I built it 
for you.  I spent my money on the materials and put in MY time for your 
good.  You can use that bridge now because of me."  All the while, his 
goal was a bridge for himself, which is apparent because the bridge is 
narrow enough for only one person, doesn't have hand rails, and is only 
strong enough for one person at a time.  Yet he still crows like a 
rooster that he built it for the town.  

True, the town can use it, but only because he hasn't put up a toll gate 
or locked it.  The differences here are that code does not wear down 
like a bridge and that it takes a bit of effort to release the project 
by either putting it on your own site or one like Source Forge.

>         When someone asks for a feature I don't think adds enough to
>  be worth the time, I probably won't do it -- though  well formulated
>  patches are still likely to be accepted.

Just like the man with the bridge.  He builds what he wants, and does 
not worry about what others need.  There's nothing wrong with that, but 
don't tell people you're volunteering your time when all you're doing 
is writing the code you want in the first place.

> > I think you've completely mistaken my point about suggestions, and
> > just assumed I was taking it personally.  My point is that whenever
> > an easier way comes out, or someone suggests something easier,
> > there is usually hostility from some groups.  It's the "it was good
> > enough for my grandfather, it's good enough for me" attitude.  It's
> > also the, "It's hard, it takes a geek to understand, and that's the
> > way it should be" attitude, as opposed to, "Well, it's different,
> > it's not my way, but it works for those that don't have time to
> > learn everything about Linux but want to use it."
>         I detect a great deal of hostility in the preceding
>  paragraph.  

Maybe, but I think some of the hostility you detect is your own toward 
the idea of contributing to the common good by putting in a little more 
effort than what one needs for his own good.

>  As an author/maintainer, the package is working well 
>  enough for me. If there is a feature request, someone has to
> convince me of the ROI of time for me to consider doing it. If you
> really really need the feature, and demand I implment this, send me
> email off line to ask for my consulting rates.

And that proves even more that you are not volunteering your time unless 
you get something for it.  That's not volunteering.  Volunteering is 
giving without expecting a ROI.

>         If you think this is hostile, I am sorry, but you are not
>  paying me well enough to sugar coat my communication.

What a mercenary.  And you call yourself a volunteer?

I have contributed to FOSS projects, including doing more work to make 
something friendlier than I needed it to make sure it was actually of 
use to others.  I have also released simple programs that I've created 
that I know others can use.  There are also times I've run into 
troubles that didn't make sense and made sure I took time to write up 
and document the solution so others have it available when it comes up.  
I've gotten responses and help requests on FOSS work, my small 
programs, and on solutions I've posted.  I answer them.  I work with 
the people asking for help.  If I have the time and people need a 
feature I can add, I do it.

So, yes, I know what volunteering is like and I know what it requires.  
But then again, I don't just write what I need, put it out there and 
say that the time I spent on it was volunteering.


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