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Re: Using Ubuntu when I'm used to Debian.

On Thursday 06 April 2006 04:19, Hal Vaughan wrote this for perusal by us all:
>---> On Wednesday 05 April 2006 13:16, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>---> > On  4 Apr 2006, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>---> > > I never said they were hostile toward me.  And that is not what
>---> > > I've seen in terms of complaints.  It's usually along the lines of
>---> > > "Why can't they edit text files, like we do?"  I have yet to see
>---> > > someone complain that the problem with a gui or easy-to-use config
>---> > > program is that it creates problems (other than Webmin).
>---> >
>---> >         Let me put it this way: I volunteer my time to scratch an
>---> >  itch, usually something that I need for myself.  I also am concerned
>---> >  with code complexity, ease of maintenance as well as ease of use,
>---> >  and ease of use vs ease of learning.
>---> Then, by your own admission, you're not volunteering your time.  You
> are ---> writing a program YOU need.  The time you put in is to create what
> YOU ---> need, not what others need.  (Your comments farther down support
> this ---> even more.)  You are contributing code and a project, but not
> your ---> time, since you've just made it clear what time you spend is on
> making ---> what you need.
>---> That's like a man that lives in a cabin on the far side of a stream
> from ---> the local town.  He builds a bridge so he can get to the town and
> then ---> walks into town and boasts to everyone, "See that bridge?  I
> built it ---> for you.  I spent my money on the materials and put in MY
> time for your ---> good.  You can use that bridge now because of me."  All
> the while, his ---> goal was a bridge for himself, which is apparent
> because the bridge is ---> narrow enough for only one person, doesn't have
> hand rails, and is only ---> strong enough for one person at a time.  Yet
> he still crows like a ---> rooster that he built it for the town.
>---> True, the town can use it, but only because he hasn't put up a toll
> gate ---> or locked it.  The differences here are that code does not wear
> down ---> like a bridge and that it takes a bit of effort to release the
> project ---> by either putting it on your own site or one like Source
> Forge. --->
>---> >         When someone asks for a feature I don't think adds enough to
>---> >  be worth the time, I probably won't do it -- though  well formulated
>---> >  patches are still likely to be accepted.
>---> Just like the man with the bridge.  He builds what he wants, and does
>---> not worry about what others need.  There's nothing wrong with that, but
>---> don't tell people you're volunteering your time when all you're doing
>---> is writing the code you want in the first place.
>---> > > I think you've completely mistaken my point about suggestions, and
>---> > > just assumed I was taking it personally.  My point is that whenever
>---> > > an easier way comes out, or someone suggests something easier,
>---> > > there is usually hostility from some groups.  It's the "it was good
>---> > > enough for my grandfather, it's good enough for me" attitude.  It's
>---> > > also the, "It's hard, it takes a geek to understand, and that's the
>---> > > way it should be" attitude, as opposed to, "Well, it's different,
>---> > > it's not my way, but it works for those that don't have time to
>---> > > learn everything about Linux but want to use it."
>---> >
>---> >         I detect a great deal of hostility in the preceding
>---> >  paragraph.
>---> Maybe, but I think some of the hostility you detect is your own toward
>---> the idea of contributing to the common good by putting in a little more
>---> effort than what one needs for his own good.
>---> >  As an author/maintainer, the package is working well
>---> >  enough for me. If there is a feature request, someone has to
>---> > convince me of the ROI of time for me to consider doing it. If you
>---> > really really need the feature, and demand I implment this, send me
>---> > email off line to ask for my consulting rates.
>---> And that proves even more that you are not volunteering your time
> unless ---> you get something for it.  That's not volunteering. 
> Volunteering is ---> giving without expecting a ROI.
>---> >         If you think this is hostile, I am sorry, but you are not
>---> >  paying me well enough to sugar coat my communication.
>---> What a mercenary.  And you call yourself a volunteer?
>---> I have contributed to FOSS projects, including doing more work to make
>---> something friendlier than I needed it to make sure it was actually of
>---> use to others.  I have also released simple programs that I've created
>---> that I know others can use.  There are also times I've run into
>---> troubles that didn't make sense and made sure I took time to write up
>---> and document the solution so others have it available when it comes up.
>---> I've gotten responses and help requests on FOSS work, my small
>---> programs, and on solutions I've posted.  I answer them.  I work with
>---> the people asking for help.  If I have the time and people need a
>---> feature I can add, I do it.
>---> So, yes, I know what volunteering is like and I know what it requires.
>---> But then again, I don't just write what I need, put it out there and
>---> say that the time I spent on it was volunteering.
>---> Hal

Well put, a good reply to the points made and an excellent analogy.

I agree, volunteering is just Hal describes. Doing something to help others 
without any expectation, even of thanks, though that would be nice and 
doesn't happen often enough. Especially when something is found in the 
archives. Just because it resides there, doesn't make it any less valuable.

I have been remiss by finding fixes in the Deb-User archives and not 
acknowledging it here.

So I would like to correct that now...... Thank you all for your assistance.


Registered Linux User:- 329524
You cannot avoid paradise. You can only avoid seeing it. ------------CHARLOTTE 

Brilliant Debian Sarge 3.1

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