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Re: Using Ubuntu when I'm used to Debian.

On Tuesday 04 April 2006 18:15, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > Every time someone suggests something
> > that makes an install easier or an easier config method, there is
> > always hostility in this group and elsewhere.
> Do you have some examples? 

I've seen and watched it.  While it was more true several years ago than 
now, I've watched that kind of ugliness pop up from time to time.  
Unfortunately, I have a small business I'm running and this thing 
called a life, so I'm not going to do your Googling for you.  (No, I 
don't keep archives myself to track something like that.)

> I do not agree with this at all. 

Next time a newbie gets online and asks about other ways to do things or 
is really confused, watch some of the nasty replies and you'll get an 
example of what I mean.  There was a situation close to that within the 
past 2 months.  It didn't focus directly on user-friendliness, but it 
was a good example of the "I know hi-tech and you don't, so don't 
bother with Linux" attitude.

> What is  
> easier for you might not actually be the correct thing to do. It
> might introduce additional problems which are difficult to solve.
> That does not mean that people are hostile to you. 

I never said they were hostile toward me.  And that is not what I've 
seen in terms of complaints.  It's usually along the lines of "Why 
can't they edit text files, like we do?"  I have yet to see someone 
complain that the problem with a gui or easy-to-use config program is 
that it creates problems (other than Webmin).

> Just because your 
> suggestions are not implemented, does not mean anything. Before
> someone comes up with statements like above, just ask yourselves one
> question - 'Has this idea not occurred to developers till now?'
> Chances are that they thought about it before and abandoned the idea.

I think at this point you've gotten far enough off the original point 
that it no longer applies.  It's a tangent on its own, so rather than 
keep taking it OT, I'll just let it go past.

> Every time I made some suggestions, they were received very
> enthusiastically. Some of them are very stupid - like for example, I
> thought of creating a separate google group to avoid spam and many
> showed how stupid that can actually be.

Again, it seems you're way off the point.  It doesn't have to do with 
suggestions.  It has to do with this attitude some people get whenever 
an easier way to handle something comes out.

> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/04/msg00164.html
> That does not mean that people were hostile to me.
> Finally, if someone did not implement your suggestions, you can
> always fork the development and implement them on your own and show
> that it in fact can be done better. After all, that is what free
> software is all about. Anyone can make suggestions. It is the code
> that matters in the end.

I think you've completely mistaken my point about suggestions, and just 
assumed I was taking it personally.  My point is that whenever an 
easier way comes out, or someone suggests something easier, there is 
usually hostility from some groups.  It's the "it was good enough for 
my grandfather, it's good enough for me" attitude.  It's also the, 
"It's hard, it takes a geek to understand, and that's the way it should 
be" attitude, as opposed to, "Well, it's different, it's not my way, 
but it works for those that don't have time to learn everything about 
Linux but want to use it."


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