Re: Enough time wasted, moving on
>>"Harry" == Harry Putnam <email@example.com> writes:
Harry> Manoj Srivastava <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes:
>> > All I hear from Woody is `can't won't or doesn't' And this on a
>> > machine that has had 2 flavors of linux, 2 of the BSDs and Solaris
>> > (intel) install successfully. Hardware recognized etc.
>> I do have a hard time being patient with people maligning the
>> distribution, saying things about people being asleep at the switch,
>> while the problem was not with the project.
Harry> The high traffic here is mostly about how well everything
Yes, cause most people use released software, or understand
that pre-release development is done on other lists (debian-boot and
debian-cd are where you see deficiencies in the current install
process discussed and addressed)
Harry> Its not really dozens, even hundreds of `project
Harry> problems' being discussed here daily. No one is finding any
Harry> difficulties with the install routines. And if they do, its
Harry> probably their own doing, and not a `project problem'.
Well, until we release the install mechanism, while we
acknowledge that it is alpha software, and there are multiple fixes
to CVS daily, I do not think it is yet a project problem if people
try to use it. Were we to release woody right now, yes, it may well
be a problem.
Harry> Right about here is where the water starts running uphill.
I am afraid you have lost me here.
Harry> You can keep right on with the `hard guy' routine, but I think its
Harry> only fair to warn you that my whole body is a weapon. Hands
Harry> registered on 3 continents. The last guy that called me a juvenile
Harry> banterer is pushing up daisies on a vacant lot in Chicago. :-)
I see. You are not only juvenile, you are a moron. Only a
moron brings in juvenile machismo on a mailing list, based on some
kinda of idiotic ``my body is a weapon'' bullshit.
Perhaps I should be apologizing to morons for comparing them
I should also apologize to you too. I had no intention of engaging
in a battle of wits with a hapless unarmed person.
Harry> And you think `asleep at the switch' is too harsh....
Unjustified. A mischaracterization.
Harry> I'm sure you will find none of that amusing
On the contrary: I rarely have such delectable idiocy to
brighten my day.
Harry> : But: I've tried to detail some of the problems I had. The
Harry> one with the nic was probably the most serious since it rules
Harry> out any further install, or at least with apt-get.
Hmm. One certainly needs to be able to load the correct NIC
(lspci, and so on, could help). I did note someone said they would
bring this to the attention of the debian-boot folks.
Harry> But I think it would be fair to say, if I have lots of trouble with
Harry> an install, after installing one or another linux, bsd etc dozens of
Harry> times on at least 20 machine in the last 3 or so years. That there are
Harry> some actual problems there.
Of course there are. It is *PRE_RELEASE ALPHA SOFTWARE*. And
we'll certainly try to get them fixed before we do release them.
Thanks for the feedback.
Harry> I don't exaclty follow the reasoning I've seen presented as to
Harry> why there isn't a more developed probing mechanism in place.
Harry> Apparently it is felt that isn't something to spend time on.
Harry> That may be true. But, hardware finagling is really a pain in
Harry> the butt. My feeling is, the more you put on the machine to
Harry> do, the better it will be.
Quite so. However, until someone puts in some work integrating
it into the install mechanism, we'll have to muddle along with a less
than optimal install process. I do believe there is some effort being
put in that direction.
Harry> The thing about a crappy install routine is that once you succeed at
Harry> it, you quit worring about it, so it never again seems so important.
Harry> I'm having trouble now, remembering what was so hard.
I am sue the people toiling on the boot-floppies and the
install cd's find usability issues quite important.
Now is the time for drinking; now the time to beat the earth with
unfettered foot. Quintus Horatius Flaccus (Horace)
Manoj Srivastava <email@example.com> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C