Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 10:25:10PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
> Sven Luther <luther@debian.org> writes:
>
> > On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 10:11:01PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
> >> * Sven Luther (luther@debian.org) [070529 22:05]:
> >> > On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 08:26:20PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> >> > > Please limit the number of posts per day to this thread.
> >> >
> >> > Lively discussion
> >>
> >> Lively discussion and DoS is a different thing. You do DoS.
> >
> > Then offer me a different medium.
>
> Please gather all your thoughts on the subject and write a letter, as
> concisely and to the point as possible. Print out 1000 copies and
> mail ONE COPY ONLY to each developer.
Mmm, i guess a web page will do just as nicely, and cost less, no ? But
i already tried this with :
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs.SvenLutherIssue/SvenLuther
to no avail.
> > Then respond to my requests of an in RL meeting, or setup an irc
> > meeting with rules, or propose another media, like a web pages, with
> > an impartial judge and transparent handling. Or go ahead an create
> > the social comittee so many have asked for to deal with this issue.
>
> Why do you need an "impartial judge"? This is a communal volunteer
Well, it seems obvious to me. A partial judge, who takes side with one
of the parties stands no chance to giving a fair ruling. Since both the
previous DPL and the DAMs have set themselves out as judge, the court of
law analogy is valid.
> project, not a court of law. Like it or not, you need to be able to
> cooperate with your fellow developers, despite their potential biases,
> likes and dislikes. Can't get along with particular folks? Then move
Yes, but does this also apply to the other DDs or just me ? If some
other folk have problems with me, then they should learn to work with
me, or try to move on and work on something else, instead of hunding me
down and trying every trick to make my live impossible.
In particular, the expulsion request on february 7 or thereabout was
*NOT* justified, nor was the ban proposal by Fabio after christmas.
> on and do something more productive, or learn to work with them
> nicely. Complaining more won't help--we have already heard the
> arguments enough times over the last few years.
and do you deny that i am at least partly justified ?
> We get that you can't work with certain developers. That's a problem
Nope, here :
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs.SvenLutherIssue/SvenLuther#head-69bb71fe3ef5766e46624ff746cd888a4591a6c6
is proof that this is not true. These other developers you mention
cannot work with me, and did everything possible to harras me.
> you have not made sufficient efforts to either resolve or avoid.
Ah, i did not ? Please reread that wiki page, and repeat that to me ?
Please tell me what was wrong with the two month self-imposed ban i
accepted on january-february ?
> There was never a need to let things get this bad, but you did and are
Sorry, but it was not me which rekindled the fire after chirstmas, nor
was it me who asked for the expulsion again in february, both time
without any provocation.
> continuting to do so with this huge spam flood. Deal with it and
> carry on with life. Life isn't perfect; the rest of us accept that we
> don't always get our own way (irrespective of the rights and wrongs of
> the matter in question), and move on from that.
Yep, and each time i tried to move on, i got another agression. And
please reread the DAMs judgement, and come tell me it was not an
agression ?
> > Sure, mail is not the best media, let's find something else, but the
> > status quo is not acceptable to me, despite all those whose sole
> > argument is "YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT AND LIVE WITH IT".
>
> That's just the way things really and truly are. That's the reality,
> whether you like it or not.
It is just the way things are *BECAUSE YOU AND OTHER DDs CHOSE TO LET IT
HAPPEN*.
> If you want to change it, you need to make a big effort to rectify the
> damage you have caused to your relations with your fellow developers.
Ah, right ? something like :
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs.SvenLutherIssue/SvenLuther#head-1ddf2df9a9ca7cdebacd7821b8692b44552a0b0e
An last a personal message to Frans, remember when we where in
Extremadura, we had a good time, and we worked side by side. I
seriously lament that it all degenerated like it did. I certainly have
my part of responsability in this, but i passed though times, as you
know. Let's put pride and arrogance and remembrance of past hurts
aside, and let's again work on d-i all together, as it should be.
Or the repeated other efforts i have made since last year to reach a
compromise and a reconciliation ? Did you see any result on this ? No,
only worse agression. An expulsion request which was totally unprovoked,
while i had not posted a single mail for a whole month.
> Is this possible at this stage? I don't know. It's largely up to you
> to do it if you can.
No, it never was upto me. Nothing i could have done would have changed
how things went, and it did happen so, because Debian let it happen, and
even encouraged it.
And if you don't agree with this, please point it out with argumented
facts.
Sadly,
Sven Luther
>
>
> Regards,
> Roger
>
> --
> .''`. Roger Leigh
> : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/
> `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/
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