Re: Complaint about #debian operator
On 12/12/05, David Nusinow <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 01:59:05PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> > also sprach David Nusinow <email@example.com> [2005.12.11.0539 +0100]:
> > > Martin, I'd like for you to come in to #debian. Not for an hour or
> > > a few hours, but for a few weeks to see what it's like. We have
> > > consistently refused to support non-Debian distros for years,
> > > including knoppix and ubuntu. We always point people to where they
> > > can get the help they need and try to leave it at that.
> > I have been on #debian for a while, and I can understand that you
> > are fully booked. Still, #ubuntu is not the place to which we should
> > send people when they want Debian vs. Ubuntu thoughts.
> Have you been in the channel? I've never ever seen you in there. You
> obviously haven't put in that much time answering questions.
> http://debstats.dontexist.org/ doesn't have you on the list, so you can't
> have been that active in actually doing the work. And #ubuntu is a fine
> place to send people who want to compare the distros. This avoids the very
> real problems with
> 1) Flamewars
> 2) Trolling
> 3) Non-Debian users asking for help in a channel that can't really help
> 4) Debian users with problems getting ignored due to saturation of
> knowledgeable people's by non-Debian users.
> Your solution totally fails to address these problems without creating
> vastly more work for us chanops. Thanks for volunteering that we do this
> work for you, but no thanks.
In a volunteer organization the people doing the work should also
determine the kind of work done. However, there is a limit to that
sort of autonomy. If you wanted to support nothing but X problems, or
only problems running quake, then we can all agree that either someone
else should take over or the IRC channel shut down.
I hope that you do not use your status as a volunteer worker as a
shield against accepting constructive criticism. If being a channel
operator is such a burden, then perhaps you should give it up. You
read the transcript: are you saying that you think your fellow
operator acted rightly? Banning me when I was getting the information
I needed, not banning an obvious troll (deadcat), and finally banning
me before telling me where to complain and when it was obvious I was
This question, for me, is moot since I don't plan on using #debian IRC
again. I expected a level of maturity from a Debian representative
that I did not get. And now when I have taken *my* time to complain
and hopefully make the organization better, I recieve classical
beuracratic defensiveness, with no clear lines of accountability I can
follow to get around *that*. And to quote
"As a volunteer organization, Debian has historically been less good
at making time-based or predictable releases, and has a difficult time
That last part is certainly proving true.
"All the soarings of my mind begin in my blood."
-Rainer Maria Rilke