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Re: Complaint about #debian operator

also sprach David Nusinow <david_nusinow@verizon.net> [2005.12.11.0539 +0100]:
> Martin, I'd like for you to come in to #debian. Not for an hour or
> a few hours, but for a few weeks to see what it's like. We have
> consistently refused to support non-Debian distros for years,
> including knoppix and ubuntu. We always point people to where they
> can get the help they need and try to leave it at that. 

I have been on #debian for a while, and I can understand that you
are fully booked. Still, #ubuntu is not the place to which we should
send people when they want Debian vs. Ubuntu thoughts.

> > A user coming to #debian wondering why Ubuntu would get so much
> > publicity and inquiring about the differences mainly shows that
> > people have not forgotten that Ubuntu is Debian, and not the
> > other way around. I think it is better for "plain users" to go
> > with Ubuntu, while power users may want to use Debian instead.
> > Our priorities are our users, so isn't it better to help
> > a future Ubuntu user realise that Ubuntu is a better choice,
> > than to risk gaining a Debian user who'll be frustrated and
> > throw in the towel soon?
> Fuck that. I agree with Joey Hess here. This is a disgusting
> attitude and I won't have any part of it. I spend a *lot* of time
> in #debian and working on X helping all users, both newbies who
> don't know where their X log file is and those who want to know
> how to write a patch for the X packages. If you really have our
> users as your focus, you'll put in the same kind of effort.

... and your work is very appreciated, as well as the work by all
others who support those with problems.

However, some users just want a computer that works (the "plain
users"). They don't want to have to learn too much about Linux or
Debian, they just want to get work done. Even if our support forums
are among the best in the field, that doesn't mean that a user wants
to have to go there, just to get away from M$ by using
a Debian-based system instead.

Let them use Ubuntu. What's the big deal? They can execute Debian
commands and learn, and should they reach power user level, they'll
come to Debian anyway. Isn't a new Ubuntu user also a new Debian
user? And there are plenty of users who'll still plunge in at the
deep end and "want to do it right from the start" by going for

I think we all should spend less time figuring out the borderline
between Debian and Ubuntu, but improving the way we cooperate.

Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list!
 .''`.     martin f. krafft <madduck@debian.org>
: :'  :    proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
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"all women become like their mothers. that is their tragedy. no man
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