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Re: Ftpmasters' status

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On 17-02-2005 06:17, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> On 17-02-2005 02:43, Anthony Towns wrote:
>>> Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>>>> Here is a fresh non-APT non-hostile thread. Please respond...
>>> Dude, if a new thread was enough to avoid folks deciding that it'd be
>>> fun to randomly throw in insults and other distractions, I'd've started
>>> my own thread months or years ago -- I do actually know how to do that,
>>> as it happens. But it's not.
>> Sorry for misunderstanding your needs.
> Then how about spending a little time thinking, first? Seriously, this
> isn't a debating exercise here; I'm not putting words together just to
> see how they sound.
> Why would you /possibly/ imagine retitling the thread would make any
> substantive difference to /anything/? Seriously.

I said I was sorry.

I apologize for the misunderstanding - please accept my apology, and let
us move on.

And please do not accuse me of not thinking (I did - even if the outcome
was not to your satisfaction).

>> Do I understand you correctly that we cannot expect any public info from
>> you on the matters of your tasks as ftpmaster until a noise-free
>> mailinglist can somehow be created/maintained?
> Yeesh. The question was "why isn't the more public discussion of
> things?" -- well, strictly it wasn't so much a question as a statement
> along the lines of "idiots like ftpmaster should discuss things more,
> but they think they're better than us, god they suck", but hey -- and
> the answer is that public discussion is actively counter productive.

Please don't. I did not call you an idiot, and I did not accuse you of
being superior to me.

I asked an honest question, and seek (ways to get) an honest answer.

> An example of how it's counterproductive is that people like trying to
> twist what's said into something that can be hurled back as an
> accusation later, just as you're trying to do above. It's not fun or
> helpful or interesting. Stop it.

Please look for constructive interpretation of my expressions instead of
negative ones. My intend was not to twist.

>> I do not mean to put words in your mouth. If you describe only an ideal
>> situation for you, but can live with less, I apologize for putting the
>> question so awkwardly before: I am really eager to hear from you about
>> matters of your ftpmaster tasks. What would be _sufficient_ for you to
>> participate in talking about it?
> Stop setting up every conversation as a trap. There are two outcomes to
> the above request: either give an answer, then get attacked for not
> providing immediate, completely literate accounts of every thought that
> crosses someone's mind; or don't give an answer and be accused of
> stonewalling and being unreasonable.
> And even if you, personally, are sincerely curious and willing to
> dedicate some of your time and effort to making a go of improving
> things, public discussion in Debian is very much a lowest common
> denominator thing [0] and you can be sure even if you refrain from
> biting into our legs, someone else won't.

I _have_, sincerely curious, dedicated some time and effort to make a go
on a dialogue on the topic noted as subject of this thread.

I cannot speak for the behaviour of our fellow Debian developers, but
personally am honestly interested in your insights on the tasks of the
ftpmaster role. I fail to see why possible ill-doing of some should make
you avoid enlighten the remains of us.

>>> I'm really not sure why anyone thinks tacking requests onto paranoid
>>> accusations of people being in unaccountable supersecretive cabals that
>>> don't share the Debian spirit is a good idea. Answering those questions
>>> just encourages people to start new obnoxious threads later to try to
>>> get a response, which means the only sensible response is to either
>>> ignore the questions, or actively prioritise issues that aren't
>>> connected to offensive threads. Seriously, why do you think anyone would
>>> want to encourage you to call them names?
>> I honestly do not have the answer to that question.
> The most obvious one is "they wouldn't". The interested reader is
> invited to reason back and determine the implications of that answer.

Well, my interest is shedding some light on the issues of ftpmaster
tasks. Will you help?

 - Jonas

- --
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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