On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 05:56:21PM -0000, MJ Ray wrote:
> Emile van Bergen <emile-deb@evbergen.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > I see no ground for concluding that Debian is not interested in people's
> > help because it takes so long to become a DD. On the contrary, I think
> > that Debian is much more interested in people helping to fix bugs than
> > in more DDs.
>
> In that case, maybe some high-level statement should be made so that
> DDs no longer recommend people who fix rc bugs and maintain packages
> go through NM.
Who is able to make a high-level statement in Debian anyway?
> > If people feel their contributions are wasted time if they're not a DD,
> [...]
>
> I think I must have not written that point out fully enough. If someone
> thinks that the project is about to collapse under its own disorganisation
> and feels that no-one is willing to openly address the problems, that
> is what discourages them. People generally don't want to throw their
> time into a black hole.
>
> Personally, during my long NM wait, I was told informally by some DDs
> that I should be quiet until I got through it. So, I quietly just kept
> feeding help to the packages I was working with for most of that time.
> I'm very annoyed that I'm now hearing some people say that NM's stuck
> in the queue should be "nosier" by helping out more publicly!
>
> Come on! Something approaching consistency, please!
My personal opinion as a non-DD and Debian-Newbie (know it for 6-8
months or so):
IMHO you haven't understand one important fact about Debian: It's
anarchic. Most open-source projects are organised tyrannic (like the
Linux kernel) or as some sort of oligarchy (a small group of
tyranns, I see Mozilla in this way for an example). Debian isn't.
The DPL can be no tyrann and although there are some DDs that
have more power than others because they do more jobs in the
project, Debian is way too diverse too form some sort of government
this way.
Debian also is not democratic. A democratic organisation
needs either more votes or has to give some representives more
power.
I see Debian as a anarchy with some isles of tyranny and oligarchy.
The only way to actually change something in an anarchy is to do
it! You can not command someone to do it. You have either to do
it yourself or convince him to do it for you. So rants doesn't change
anything. Either make proposals for changes (and join the part of
Debian you want to change when you are a DD) or stick with your anger.
Of course you can complain when something goes wrong (and you should).
But to complain about "Debian" is nonsense. Complain about DAM,
complain about the Front Desk, but do not complain about "Debian".
just my 2cents.
Frank Lichtenheld
--
*** Frank Lichtenheld <frank@lichtenheld.de> ***
*** http://www.djpig.de/ ***
see also: - http://www.usta.de/
- http://fachschaft.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de/
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