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Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop


Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <tiago@debian.org> writes:
> It is, as it's the amazing job which Jordi did on bringing good
> arguments in favor of GNOME as a default DE (even I'm not really
> supporting it).

His personal opinion about whether or not GNOME or XFCE are technically
the best choices -- surely. If it is based upon a solid evaluation of
both, even more so.

His personal opinion about whether or not people *like* one or the
other, based upon the existence or non-existence of flamewars -- surely
not. At least I sincerely hope, no one takes that the least bit

> Anyway, I may not be contributing to the original issue this thread, but
> I have to ask you here to avoi being so rude with our users.

I apoligize to the part of my second mail where I might have been
rude. I do not apologize for asking to justify statements that where
made as arguments in a discussion. Claiming, that gnome is not "neutral"
and providing as only justification "They made the following decisions I
disagree with" is at best a poor choice of words. Claiming that it is
common (or "not that uncommon") for people to dislike GNOME 3 and
providing as only justification "just google 'GNOME 3 sucks'" may be
okay in a bar, but not as an argument to be taken into consideration in
a serious discussion.

> And dear users, please keep sharing your personal experience with
> Debian, even if you are unable to quanti-qualify things in fancy numbers
> to please those who don't agree with you.

First, I did not ask for "fancy numbers". I asked for *anything*. A
ballpark guess, any kind of data that would enable to estimate the ratio
of people hating GNOME 3 to the people loving it (for example at least
some people have tried interpreting popcon-data for that). I made this
more than clear in my first message and I was pretty polite, I think (at
least I honestly tried and I am very sorry if I failed there). But as
expected, there is no justification whatsoever.
Second, I don't disagree with him. I actually have no opinion on gnome
vs. xfce, as previously stated, I simply don't care. I only have an
opinion on presenting unjustifiable claims as objective arguments in a discussion.

I really think, in these kinds of discussions it would be helpfull to
get some kind of direct community-feedback. This would help *both* sides
in every of these discussions, because it would make it impossible for
either side to claim a widely held opinion that can not be refuted
easily. For example, if we could have a simple survey "do you prefer
the experience of gnome 3 or xfce" which any dev/maintainer/user could
fill in, it would make it impossible for gnome-guys to claim it is more
modern or preferred by non-technical people (who might not be vocal on
-devel, but might very well fill in such a simple survely), if it really
isn't. But it would also make it impossible for xfce-supporters (or
gnome haters) to claim a wide opposition to the changes of gnome 2
vs. 3, if there is none. Both sides regularly invoke a majority-opinion
without providing justification, that just does not work in an argument.


Axel Wagner

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