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Re: -= PROPOSAL =- Release sarge with amd64

On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 03:06:20PM +0200, David Weinehall wrote:

> In this thread I'm mostly witnessing half-truths (or hopefully just
> ignoramus) and and bitter whining rather than constructive ideas, to an
> extent I've rarely encountered before[1].

Yeah... it would surprise me,too, when a thread on d-d would turn into something
constructive and productive... ;)

>  If you care about AMD64 (and
> I'm not talking specifically to you Ingo, I just decided to jump in on
> your quote), forget about the GR-proposal, help fix the RC bugs in base
> and standard.  Just because those bugs aren't AMD64-specific, doesn't
> mean they don't block AMD64.  In fact, as soon as Sarge is ready for
> release, everyone except for the stable release manager will have a lot
> more time to deal with AMD64.

Well, I personally think that the GR was just something to get attention,
the last ressort. Other methods of trying to get some info from ftpmasters
have been failed for whatever reasons. 
> Bitching won't help AMD64 to get into Sid faster.  Helping out with
> things that block the release of Sarge will.  AND tends to create a lot
> more goodwill than whining your ass off does.  Make sure that everything
> works perfectly, so that a nice slip-in of AMD64 into Sarge r1 will be
> a no-brainer.  And trying to get AMD64 into Sarge is just plain silly.
> It's not even in Sid yet.  Not even silly 10kB packages goes directly
> into testing without passing Sid.  Does anyone really consider it sane
> to let an entire new architecture in without at least being part
> of Sid for, say, half a year or so?  Especially in a situation where we
> *hopefully* can release Sarge within that timeframe[0]?

The request to get it released with Sarge also means that it should be
included into sid, as far as I understood the intention of this proposal. 

It's not only that the ftpmasters won't let amd64 into the main archive, but
- and that's important for developers and maintainers - buildd.d.o filters
amd64 buildd logs away. 
This is one example how amd64 is being held out of debian for (obviously) no
apparent reason. And when you try to get some answers why this is this way,
you only hear _nothing_ from the responsible people. 

> Don't feel like fixing RC-bugs?  Write missing manual-pages; there are
> still a lot of packages missing manual-pages.  Or even better, make
> sure existing manual-pages are up to date.  While it's in no way
> RC for Sarge, having a well-documentated Sarge surely makes a better
> impression.

I think Debian lost a lot of quality during the last years, sadly. This is
probably a tribute to its size. 

> If nothing else, stop prolonging this thread further[2].  Repeating
> your message won't help.  It will however increase the probability of
> getting killfiled.  And then you can be _sure_ that your message won't
> ever get heard.

The problem is: it really changes something ever... no matter what arguments
you're bringing up, nor how true your complain is, nor anything else. Some
people simply sit on their positions. And am I the only one who finds it
strange that some people has multiple positions/roles? I would prefer to
split this up and have only one person one position in Debian. 

> Oh, and please stop perpetuating the widespread, incorrect belief that
> James Troup is the only FTP-master.  He isn't, he's part of a team.

But as you might know yourself, you can be in a team and you can be in a
team. Meaning: there are several ways how you can be involved in a team.
There might be a team leader. He's part of the team, of course. 
And there might be someone, who's in the team, but doesn't do that much.
He's part of the team as well. 
So, being part of a team doesn't say how much you're involved or how much
influence you have in that team, right?
> BTW: Feel open to flame.  I don't killfile anyone (well, except for
> spammers).  I might not answer, but at least I read the mail I get.
> [0] Yes, I'm an optimist.
> [1] And I've been active in politics for more than 10 years.
> [2] Yes, I'm fully aware of that this post does that too...

See, and your post is IMHO an example of someone who can discuss. I would
like to see more of this kind of mails on d-d. 

Ciao...              // 
      Ingo         \X/

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