On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 04:30:45PM -0700, Adam McKenna wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 06:17:14PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:06:49 -0700, Adam McKenna <adam@flounder.net> said:
> > > To volunteer means to give one's services voluntarily and free of
> > > charge. That's ALL it means.
> >
> > > It doesn't imply that the volunteer can pick and choose what he
> > > feels like doing. He needs to do the job that he agreed to do. If
> > > he doesn't have the time to perform 100% of the job tasks, he still
> > > 'owns' the tasks and should be responsible for delegating them to
> > > other volunteers and making sure they get done. If he doesn't, he
> > > is a failure, and should either step down or be replaced.
> >
> > > You and others who are advocating this alternate definition of
> > > 'volunteer' should really stop it. You are damaging the project
> > > when you enable failed volunteers to justify their actions.
> >
> > This displays a profound misunderstanding of what being a DD
> > and an office holder in Debian implies (which is surprising, seeing
> > that you are a DD).
> >
> > Yes, I volunteered to do a job, to the best of my ability,
> > and in the best manner that I can determine. I shall do the job the
> > best way I see, and not jump when other people tell me to do
> > something else. You can't force me to work against my best judgement.
>
> I agree with you. You have the right to do your job however you see fit, as
> long as you are *doing your job*. If you're not doing your job, and your
> excuse is that as a volunteer, nobody can force you to do anything, then you
> have an attitude problem.
Oh, OK. So you're saying there are people on key positions in the
project who aren't doing anything, they're just sitting there,
preventing others from stepping in and actually doing the work?
If so, please name them. If not, please shut up.
> I don't see how passive-aggressive ignoring of people serves the goals of the
> project. Debianers who occupy important roles and are using this as a
> tactic to avoid or put off work,
Do you have prove that this is happening?
If so, please name it. If not, please shut up.
> or simply because they don't like someone should be removed from their
> positions.
I have never seen any volunteer in the project not do something simply
because they didn't like someone else. I did see something that came
close (the rejection of Goswin von Brederlow by the DAM), but I decided
long ago that James had his reasons there, and don't suspect malicious
intent (even if I do not agree).
Do you have any counter example where someone did indeed not do
something simply because they didn't like some person? If so, please
name it. If not, please shut up.
> Likewise, Debianers who constantly participate in large flamewars
> (like this one, for example), while at the same time complaining about
> their lack of time should be similiary scrutinized.
Well, you see, it might be a bad idea to blatantly ignore the kind of
flamewars where people in key positions are accused of not
communicating; for doing that might make you the subject of the next
flamewar.
> > I don't give a shit if you pass a GR. I am still going to do
> > what I signed up to do the best way I can do it.
>
> I'm not trying to pass a GR, Manoj. Just trying to change the attitudes that
> are destroying the project.
We have a saying in dutch; it goes like "Better the world, and start
with yourself".
Your unnamed accusations and general unfounded statements have a
striking similarity to the statements and slogans made by a particular
Flemish political party, called the "Vlaams Blok". That in itself would
be a good thing, if not for the fact that the Vlaams Blok is an
extremist right-wing racist political party, which, because of the style
of their slogans and statements, similarly unfounded, is deemed
non-democratically by all other, left- and right-wing, political parties
in Belgium.
If you're going to make accusations like this, be specific, so that
other people can verify what you're saying. If you don't do that, your
accusations hold no ground and should not be spoken.
--
EARTH
smog | bricks
AIR -- mud -- FIRE
soda water | tequila
WATER
-- with thanks to fortune
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