#include <hallo.h> * Greg Folkert [Thu, Jul 08 2004, 08:12:37PM]: > > I am not. There are already tooo many exception for "advanced users on a > > network" - no dependencies on font packages, no dependency on network > > daemons etc. - skipping packages that 90% of users need to install > > anyway. It is great for the minority of "flexible users" to not have to > > deal with dependencies but it is bad for the most users that are pissed > > by looking around again and again for stuff that maintainer decided to > > separate for no apparent reason. > > So I suggest to set > > Depends: xprt-server | network-client > > so the few people that actually have a network server for xprt can > > manage it with equivs and everyone else gets what she needs. > > Oh, so now *I* have to manage *MY* choices with equivs now. Shoving YOUR > choices of what is best down my throat. I don't agree. How about if I > just want to run X applications (such as Mozilla) from a Workhorse > Server but display on a remote machine? Should I then have to have the Ehm, that is _exactly_ what I write about. Not everybody needs it and dozens of exceptions for such users (to not install 1-2 packages more by default) simply suck for the rest. > print engine on that server? How about I only want some "X" libs on the > machine to compile something for another machine? Should I then have to I did not talk about libs but enduser applications. Don't read between the lines. > have Xprint on it then? I am guessing you only see your small part of > the world. No, you guess to much to talk about things that I did not write. > How about you take a look at what Debian is really about. It is not From your point of view, never forget it... > about THESE set "set" of Definitions, it is all about being able to > Choose what you want despite of SOMEONE thinking I am crazy. Debian BY > FAR is not a Beginner's Distro. Although it can be, if they (the 90% you > speak of) are capable of comprehending guides and manuals and man pages. Following your attitude we should switch to Gentoo-like "installer" since "not-beginners" do not need comfort. Or what exactly do you want to say presenting this typical cliche? > You talk about exceptions... those are NOT exceptions. Heck, Debian by > default (base system) doesn't even install "less" or "wget". If you want You talk about completely different dimensions. The exclusion of this packages in basedebs is a choice that does not affect a specific group of users, while limiting the "set" of sensible Dependencies is only needed for a small group but touches everyone. > a distro that DOES everything for you, then get Linspire or Xandros. Or use the tasks. What's the point? > Debian *IS* the best distro ever if you can understand the ideologies it > is built upon. There is No Cost, there is No Company, there is No > Commercial Drive, there IS Volunteers, and lest you forget, we are And there is no need to make it difficult for people for rudiculous reasons (like space. When someone installs a monster like mozilla, there is most likely enough disk space to install the print system too). > donating our time to help people like you, Fix your mis-understandings > about what Debian does or does not do. Dude, do you really need to become personal? Who are YOU that you come around and try to teach me about how my distro should look? > You Speak of 90% of the users. I Call your Bluff to back that number UP. http://popcon.debian.org/main/by_inst.gz Okay, not 90 but about 70 (mozilla-browser / xprt-xprintorg). And since many did need to install it manually (while mozilla-browser is pulled in by various dependencies), I think the number was pretty close. > I'd be extremely surprised if you could prove 50% of Debian users are > NOT advanced/power/technical users (or prove that 50% are Beginner/Joe 1-34+123-45123-23451 Nice number game, isn't it? > Blow/Aunt Tilly users). I'd even wager 75% of all Debian users are > Power/Advanced/Technical users. I am talking Debian straight, not > derivatives like Linspire or Xandros or KNOPPIX and their kind. You degrade Debian from a universal distro to a hacker distro, presuming that hackers need the full control and have enough spare time to care about every problem and every missing dependency. This is not the case. As admin of a system with several thousands user I tell you: this attitude sucks and did cost my working time to find out why the new mozilla did not print. > > mlterm (installing sane fonts by default) > Sane? By whose standard? By those who do not want to see extremely ugly fonts after the default installation. Regards, Eduard.
Attachment:
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature