Re: Discussion - non-free software removal
>>"John" == John Goerzen <email@example.com> writes:
John> On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 08:41:59PM -0500, Matej Cepl wrote:
>> That's exactly my point -- which free program should I use when I
>> want to listen to RealPlayer only radio stations (www.wgbh.org,
John> Why is removing non-free going to have any impact whatsoever on your
John> RealPlayer? You can still install and use it just like you can now.
From where? I can install angband, for example, from Debian
archive sites. Where shall I be able to install angband from after
the resolution is passed?
>> Until some better solution than the sacrifice is ready in the
>> stable version, I will vote for keeping non-free in Debian. BTW,
John> NON-FREE IS NOT IN DEBIAN NOW.
John> This GR, therefore, DOES NOT remove non-free from Debian. It was never
I find this post strident, and disingenuous. You state that
non-free was never in Debian, a statement that is ambiguous, and thus
only partly true.
What you mean is that the non free software was never part of
the Debian distribution, that is, the OS that Debian, the project,
produces. True enough. But non-free software was provided, and
supported, by Debian the project, and that is precisely what you are
trying to take away.
I have no objection to you trying to do that; but please
do not try and put a spin on it. The debian project provides services
for non-free softrware, archive services, bug tracking, etc, and the
the users of this software shall be affected by this.
John> My proposal will not remove your ability to use RealPlayer or any other
John> non-free software.
it will, however, remove your ability to get angband as a
.deb, unless things change.
I have heard statements that all the software to be evicted
from the Debian projects archives shall not disappear off the face of
the earth. True, again, as far as the statement goes: but the ease of
use in gathering the canonical list of plase to get the software
from is indeed going to be impacted.
You are glossing over the value of the services we provide our
users; after all, no one really needs a distribution to run Linux:
real men gather raw software and compile their own OS from bare
Having a canonical archive, complete with mirrors,
administration, BTS, and until recently, QA during releases, was a
service we offer these packages, and their users, and we are
discussing whether we should take the services away.
John> My proposal will not remove your ability to get RealPlayer as a .deb.
But not angband.
We should have, as aj puts it, the intellectual honesty to
stand up and characterize what we are doing: in the name of long term
benefit for freedom of software, we are planning on taking away
services to software that does not meet our definition of free,
despite the impact it shall have.
I have long been of the opinion that non-free shall dwindle
and wither away of its own accord. The argument was easy to make
when we were deciding on the content of the social contract; it was
harder to make a couple of years ago; and now that things have
changd, and free software has exploded, people who would place
ideology first are harder then ever to convince.
Before you draw conclusions about my stance on this issue, let
me state that I have not yet made up my mind. Apart from java (which
is not even in non-free), I only use graphviz and angband; so it
wouldn't be that hard for me to give up and join the apathetic masses
on this issue; I just was irritated enough by tone of this message to
=============== ALL FRESHMEN PLEASE NOTE =============== To minimize
scheduling confusion, please realize that if you are taking one
course which is offered at only one time on a given day, and another
which is offered at all times on that day, the second class will be
arranged as to afford maximum inconvenience to the student. For
example, if you happen to work on campus, you will have 1-2 hours
between classes. If you commute, there will be a minimum of 6 hours
between the two classes.
Manoj Srivastava <firstname.lastname@example.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C