martin f krafft wrote:|
I disagree with your characterization that nothing has been implemented. In fact, lots of things have been implemented, and I agree that this is largely thanks to the willingness of individuals rather than effective engagement at the "whole project" level.My request isn't driven by a specific set of ideas, but driven by my sense that this sort of engagement would greatly help to improve the relationship, which in turn would be very positive for Debian.The reason I keep asking is because it's not the first time I hear this. So far, Ubuntu as a whole hasn't really approached Debian, despite meetings such as the one in Mexico, where a lot of things were talked about but never implemented. There is good cooperation between individual teams, but that's neither an Ubuntu effort, nor a Debian one. It shows, however, that collaboration is possible.
I hope you don't feel that Ubuntu has failed to initiate contact and reach out to Debian. I have personally sent mail, and attempted to speak with, successive DPL's. Hopefully, the new DPL will be open to this communication, but my realisation earlier this year was that the right way to reach the project as a whole is literally, to try to engage publicly with the whole community, not through a single individual who is usually overloaded.
I would ask you to consider the exception on the basis that Ubuntu is important to Debian, not to judge the specifics of the talk in advance. You accord some leaders of the project time and space to present their vision of what's important and what's topical, and I'm asking for the same opportunity. Some folks may say "why should the leader of a different project get high profile time at *our* conference". My view is that Ubuntu is part of the Debian family, and is in fact a very valuable and important part, and so it is reasonable to create a dedicated space for a presentation along those lines. I would be quite comfortable to share that time with leaders of other high-profile or very interesting Debian derivatives who are also bringing new users to Debian, and which can also play a vital role in the next year of the project.You are now asking us to make an exception for you — our deadline for talk proposals has passed. If we can see the potential in what you have in store, then, by all means, we'll make it happen anyway; we are definitely interested in improving the relationship between our projects. To help us make the exception, please provide us with more information. Please tell us what you plan to do and how this is going to be "very positive for Debian" (and DebConf). Maybe you could also mention why you want to talk about this at DebConf, rather than on some mailing list (like DCT, utnubu), or with individuals who have always been interested in the cooperation between our projects. I suggest you create an event in the pentabarf interface (now that we created the keynote event type) and provide the information there. I am not trying to impose extra work here, pentabarf is just what our papers committee uses to make decisions. If you don't want to make it all public yet, you're welcome to email them to the papers committee <firstname.lastname@example.org>, and please put me on CC explicitly.
PS: I would (personally) also be interested in the relationship of your proposal to http://vcs-pkg.org, but that's tangential.
I haven't looked at that. I haven't yet assembled a detailed list of proposals. For that, I would ask the lead contributors to Ubuntu, especially those who are also DD's, to consolidate their best ideas for me to present. I don't really want to ask them to do that work if there isn't the opportunity to present it in a compelling way, to Debian as a whole, which is why I'm making this unusual request.