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Re: Question to all candidates about stable point releases

On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 09:34:34AM +0100, Michael Meskes wrote:
> > Changes are currently being implemented to improve the handling of
> > proposed-updates, in order to have those point releases happing more
> Since I'm currently running very low on time it may very well be that I 
> completely missed this, so could you please give me a short hint where to 
> find more about the changes that are being implemented? There probably has 
> been an announcement, right?

No, there hasn't been a real announcement yet. Involved teams and people
were mailed though, and the developer-affecting changes are planned to
be announced when they're settled and implemented. Andreas Barth pointed
to some details about it anyway, for those interested.

> > easily. It'll still require an ftp-master to find the time to do it, and
> > there can be any number of reasons why nobody finds the time to do it --
> > Debian being volunteer-driven as it is. I personally don't think it's a
> Right, Debian is driven by volunteers and I'm pretty sure there are some 
> volunteers willing to help ftp-admins to manage the archives. So isn't the 
> simple solution to have more ftp-admins?

It's not that easy, there is for example no real enforced audit trail
when you have filesystem access to the master archive. But yes, if a
team is structurally too busy, new members should ultimately be added.

> > huge issue if those point releases are not 100% regular, because for the
> > majority it's security updates, but it's still good to have them not too
> So, you essantially say point releases are not that important. Okay, your 
> mileage may vary, but other people have other opinions and spend a lot of 
> time (I think) in preparing those point releases. But then they are not 
> released because of a lack of time in one small team. How do you think the 
> people working on the point releases feel about that? 

"sick", "ill, angry and utterly frustrated" 
 -- http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00008.html

I think this has been sufficiently discussed now in this thread and the
one started by above announcement.

> > far apart, esp. for those updates that are not also already distributed
> > via security.debian.org. With significantly less effort required each
> > time from the side of ftp-master, I think stable point releases can
> So the releases have to be changed to create less work for ftp-master?

You misunderstood, I was referring to infrastructure changes only.

> > happen more regularly. There can be other ways to improve too, but not
> > by direct intervention from the DPL role -- a DPL should not want to
> > micro-manage.
> Sorry, but I don't get this one. Why is this micro-managing? The DPL IMO 
> should take care of the process inside the project, or who else should?

Yes, but not my managing details. If there are non-technical problems
between teams, the DPL should attempt to mediate. For technical
problems, we have the technical committee, and the DPL can still assist

Teams themselves decide what technical decisions they take.

> > It's not something I see as a priority to improve though, I don't think
> > the current situation is unaccepteable or so. Our real releases are much
> > more important. As DPL, I want to focus most of my energy on a limited
> > amount of areas, better do a few things good, than a lot of them only a
> > bit.
> Taking care of the releases takes so much time for the DPL that he cannot take 
> care of what's going on with point releases. Is this understanding of your 
> statement correct? 

No. I won't be spending much DPL-time on either type of releases. I'll
closely follow them, especially the etch release, and spend time on it
if I think there are problems I need to give attention to. I think and
hope it won't be needed, the people in charge of the releases are very


Jeroen van Wolffelaar
Jeroen@wolffelaar.nl (also for Jabber & MSN; ICQ: 33944357)

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