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Re: communication obscurity [was: debian-women obscurity]

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 02:25:49AM +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
> Matthew Palmer <mpalmer@debian.org> wrote:
> > You can list all the mailing lists and fora you read, but the point is that
> > unless you watch the entire world's open communications, you will miss
> > announcements.  It's a fact of life.  The choices for senders are,
> > basically, to either have a single "everything-announce" mailing list/IRC
> > channel/Jabber thing/Web forum/RSS feed/<whatever other pet technology
> > people like> and send every possible piece of information interesting to
> > somebody there, or else ensure that every possible piece of information of
> > interest to somebody gets sent to every open fora on earth.
> > 
> > Neither of those is conducive to useful on-going communication.
> Like those are the only two options, the two extremes. It

When you're trying to solve the problem of "ensure that someone you may not
know exists gets your announcements", that is basically it.  You can have no
assurance that your recipient reads any particular fora; in fact, you can't
even be sure they read *any* public fora.

> does seem like debian-women is not particularly better at
> communication than most other parts of debian. Can't blame
> people for not seeing cool stuff if it's stuck away in an
> obscure backwater mostly unannounced.

Where was there blame?  I didn't see any comments like "MJ sucks because he
didn't know where the mentoring program material was".  It was more "d-women
sucks because I don't know where the mentoring program material is".

> > > No, it's that that community's enforcement methods and secrecy
> > > should not allow it to be part of debian.
> > Why not?  The critical factor for inclusion in Debian appears to be a very
> > occasional contribution to the development of a Free operating system.
> > A bit of non-public discussion and enforcement of community standards
> > doesn't even come close to crossing that line. [...]
> I am concerned that a debian-nazi list, encouraging development
> of debian by nazis and use of debian for nazi activities,
> would be seen as fine by the same sort of reasoning. I think

What's wrong with that?  As long as the nazis communicate all their
announcements to you, and do not deviate from Debian's core goals, where's
the issue?

For that matter, where are the on-going, public announcements from the vital
work that the esperanto language team is doing to help Debian?  Perhaps you
need to get your own house in order first.

- Matt

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