Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On 03/03/14 11:31, ghaverla wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 16:53:59 +1100
> Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I disagree with the binaryness of
>>> systemd.
>>
>> Do you mean the *one* binary in systemd? I'm pretty sure the source
>> is available.
>
> As I understand things, one of the benefits of systemd is a fast boot
> process. As I only boot my computer once per year (or so), this is
> terribly important to me (sarcasm).
Which is fine for you, and I can understand and appreciate that, for my
own personal computers my sentiments are similar. However my business
purposes involve meeting SLAs so reboots once or twice a year can cost a
lot of money - so in those circumstances a few minutes makes a lot of
difference. Perhaps that's not something you care about - or it's just
convenient to ignore until your bank/phone/stockbroker/shopping is
interrupted as a result. Perhaps you simply put your "needs" before
those of others - assuredly inadvertently.
Given the interest displayed by "home users", and those that develop for
embedded platforms, in fast boot times, I suspect your needs aren't
stereotypical of all the users that Debian The Universal Operating
System seeks to support.
<snipped>
>
> As I understand things,
I don't know what you have or haven't been reading - but it's likely not
the same as me.
The journaling component is binary. The source is available.
<snipped>
>
> The guys at Bell Labs were all smart guys.
Yes. So were many of the Ancient Greek engineers - but none of them were
able to predict either the technological or social and business
requirements of today. They were smart - and they knew their
limitations, hence you won't find them having made foolish predictions
like the guy who declared "everything that can be invented already has
been".
I suspect when you were reading up on Unix development you skipped the
history and aims of Multix. You do know the joke behind the naming of
Unix right? Multix was meant to be able to do "everything" - but budget
and time constraints led to *severe* compromises in the project aims.
Unix is the result.
Linux (and GNU) are not Unix, by design - not just for legal reasons -
but because it doesn't scratch the itch. Compare pears with pears, not
potatoes.
<snipped>
> I think most of these people are looking for
> hibernation, not boot.
You *imagine*, not "think" (using reductive logic?). I'm sure your not a
bully who forces your ideas onto those that do want fast boot instead of
hibernation.
Fast booting was not the sole criteria for which it was selected by
Debian for the *Linux* kernel.
Perhaps your 'understanding' was not based on reading the relevant
documentation, discussions and debates?
If you're uncertain as to why "users" (sometimes erroneously interpreted
to mean *only* hobbyist consumers) don't have more "say" in the process
the Debian Constitution is a good starting point on the road to a
"knowledge-based understanding". I'm reasonably certain that directly or
indirectly (corporate sponsored), developers do take "users" needs into
account - and those concerns shape the decisions they make in Debian
debates and discussions.
Please excuse the terseness of my language - my time and writing skill
is limited. I do appreciate you are not a shill/troll/saboteur - but
your post is one of many the read like "Dear interweb, do my home work
for me".
>
>
>>> But knowing Debian was going to change, I went looking for refuge,
>>> and things derived from Gentoo might be home, things derived from
>>> Slackware might be home.
>>
>> Choice is good. Fortunately it's one of the key benefits of Open
>> Source development.
>
> There is no choice, when we are informed that systemd will be the
> default in 8.0, when in unstable and testing systemd is already present
> and seemingly no way to remove it.
Wait - didn't you just say you went looking and found Gentoo and Slackware?
Is that not choice?
Don't conflate Debian and "Open Source" - they are not synonyms. If you
interpret choice to mean "I demand my choice be catered for" - then
bully for you.
The only thing stopping you from writing your own init/kernel/userland
from scratch - or forking the work of others, is the misplaced belief
that others *should* do it for you. That sounds as productive and
fulfilling as pissing up a rope.
<snipped>
I'm sorry you find the whole idea so upsetting. Truly.
Overcome and adapt is the only suggestion I can make.
Kind regards
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