Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 01:28:38 +0100
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
> We Arch users made a poll. Even if more users would have been against
> systemd, the developers would have switched to systemd, but most users
> wanted systemd. We, around 49% and me were against systemd, but around
> 51 % were pro systemd. Nowadays it makes live easier for all of us who
> use several different distros, when _all_ or at least the most
> important distros will switch to systemd. To discuss pros and cons of
> systemd a time machine is needed, to go back more than 3 years ago.
> To discuss it in 2014 is a little bit to late.
I don't begrudge DD deciding to make systemd the default in 8.0. But
the announcement of that, was the first time systemd came on my radar.
Hence, I (not the person who started this thread) couldn't have engaged
in debate 3+ years ago either. I disagree with the binaryness of
systemd.
But knowing Debian was going to change, I went looking for refuge, and
things derived from Gentoo might be home, things derived from Slackware
might be home.
In trying to investigate this weeks ago, it was not a measured
argument I was observing.
I started with Linux with the 1.2.13 kernel, and my first job was
upgrading a Linux box running 1.2.9 with 1.2.13. I have run across a
lot of news, email, blogs and projects since then. There are a handful
of personalities I dislike, and there are a handful of projects I
dislike. Usually, you can find a replacement. Sometimes you have to
remove stuff. One of the first sets of projects I found myself
removing if present, or staying away from was Pulse audio. Some people
never had problems, I think they did fresh installs where Pulse was the
default. If Pulse ever had a problem, it usually seemed to turn into a
nightmare. Long before I heard of Avahi, I had read about zeroconf.
Seemed like a neat idea. I had no use for it. Then I found avahi
causing me grief on KDE, and then I find out it is zeroconf, and it is
required (or close to it). So, I just got in the habit of removing
execute permission on all the binaries. Up until a few weeks ago, I
had no idea who was behind either Pulse or avahi.
Udev has bothered me. And then comes the systemd announcement, and
part of that is involved systemd taking over udev. About that time, I
learn who is behind systemd, and that this is the same person who was
behind Pulse and avahi. And since then, I seen a note that this same
udev thing is going to get pushed into the kernel. Soon.
I will try Sabyon (sp?). But it looks like it might move to systemd
willingly leaving no option. It is based on Gentoo, which I could move
to. And once upon a time I ran slackware, so I could move to that,
which looks like it will have options. At least to some things. And
most recently, I built a debian package from source with pbuilder, in
an effort to learn about removing unwanted functionality (PolicyKit).
It turns out I also had to remove dbus and fax support, but I don't
need either of those for my printing needs.
It is possible that there won't be problems with Debian (or other
distributions), but I think there will be. So I am moving, it is just
to be determined how far.
But to read that a split of 49:51 means there can't be options is
disheartening.
Gord
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