Re: I'm not a huge fan of systemd
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On 07/19/2014 10:15 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 19 iul 14, 07:49:37, The Wanderer wrote:
>> Which points out a large part of the problem, right there: most
>> Gnome programs do not themselves need to interact with systemd
>> itself (or any component thereof), but due to the dependency chain
>> passing through Gnome, installing one of those programs will result
>> in installing systemd. That qualifies them as "package[s] which
>> depend ... indirectly on systemd ... without real need"; they do
>> not need systemd, but they indirectly depend on it anyway.
>> The problem is that each step of the dependency chain is there for
>> good reason, at least from the perspective of the developers /
>> maintainers of that particular package - but the end result is that
>> a program which does not need systemd is packaged in a way which
>> requires systemd.
> That's also one of the reasons I don't even bother anymore to try out
> Gnome. Last time I did that (and didn't like it) it was just too
> difficult to un-install it due to circular Depends/Recommends. Why is
> any of this systemd's fault?
It's partly systemd's - or, rather, the systemd developers' - fault for
having chosen to implement the functionality which the outside programs
(in this case, components of GNOME) want to depend on as part of
something not independent from the init system.
If they hadn't done that, all the other problems with GNOME would still
exist, but this particular one would be short-circuited. They did choose
to do it, and they are one of the bottlenecks where the problem could
potentially be resolved in its entirety, so the end result is at least
partly their fault.
Of course, as I said, within their narrow context and from their
perspective they did it that way for good reason. That's the problem:
individual reasonable decisions with good, rational basis combine to
produce an unreasonable or otherwise bad result.
Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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