Re: Iceweasel and DRM
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On 05/19/2014 08:42 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 5/19/2014 8:32 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> On 05/18/2014 10:31 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> Yes, I understand the difference. The license I grant you to use
>>> my copyrighted material says what you MAY use it for. Of course,
>>> you CAN use it for something else - but you will be in violation
>>> of the copyright.
>>
>> What is your basis for claiming this?
>>
>> As far as I can see, there is no basis in the law for the claim
>> that copyright grants any control whatsoever over the end user's
>> *use* of the copyrighted thing. Separate contracts can grant such
>> control, but the only leverage the copyright holder has in order to
>> persuade someone to agree to such a contract is the threat to
>> refuse to authorize the creation of a copy. (Or possibly the threat
>> to refuse to create more things in the future, but that would exist
>> even without copyright.)
>>
>> If the copy has already been created and has been transferred to
>> the user (as in the case of, e.g., a physical DVD), and no further
>> copies are going to be created, and the end user has not agreed to
>> a contract limiting their use of the copy, what is there to either
>> limit such use or require them to agree to such a contract?
>
> The license you agree to when using my product.
My question is, what requires me to agree to that license before using
the product?
If I have to indicate acceptance of the license before receiving the
copy, then it could be argued that the license constitutes a contract,
which would be binding upon me (barring other complications).
But in the case of e.g. a physical DVD, I don't even see the license
until after I've received the copy which is fixed in the form of the
DVD. At that point, all copying involved in the process has already been
done, with authorization from the copyright holder.
All a license does is grant permission to do something which would
otherwise be restricted.
Copyright does not restrict use; it only restricts copying.
Since copyright does not restrict use, a copyright license cannot grant
permission to use - or rather, such permission is not needed.
> Have you ever looked at the license for a product you've bought or
> downloaded via the internet?
Yes - in fact, I am among the presumably few people who habitually read
EULAs in detail before accepting or rejecting them. Even if I don't
actually agree to what I'm clicking through, I like to make sure I know
what it's claimed I'm agreeing to, if only to be aware of what parts may
be invalid.
> Even GPL products are licensed; the license specifies what can and
> cannot be done with the product. If you use the material, you agree
> to the license - and the terms in it.
But, as Richard Hector noted in a separate reply, the GPL does not claim
to restrict or to grant permission to use. In fact, it doesn't
completely restrict copying, either; it mainly limits distribution.
Many EULAs purport to grant permission to use the thing covered by the
license, but as far as I can tell, such "permission to use" is not
actually required; copyright law doesn't restrict it, and nothing else
in the law that I'm aware of - aside from trademark and patent, which
often don't apply - does either. As best I can tell, this is something
copyright holders have made up out of whole cloth.
> I could, for instance, put in the license you can only use the
> product between the hours of 2AM and 3AM local time on Tuesdays.
> Maybe it's not a reasonable term - but if you want to use the
> product, that's the only time you can legally use it.
If I've agreed to and am bound by the license, yes - and if my using it
requires permissions which would be granted by the license, and are not
granted by any other means.
What I'm asking is, what requires me to accept the license before using
the product, if creation of all necessary copies has already been both
authorized and performed?
- --
The Wanderer
Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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